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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:06 am 
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I disagree because you can think there's a fuel leak somewhere. Happens to me at every petrol station.

Jeroen

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:45 pm 
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Mark, it was possible one of the fuel pipes has split when I was doing the carb mount swap. The pipes on the fuel pump have been on the car during my entire ownership so for the sake of a few quid I've replaced the whole lot in the engine bay.

Jeroen, sorry for being a bit vague. The mechanic reckoned there was a fuel leak so I wasn't going to take any chances. Leak-free fuel pipes will help me to get through the MoT.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:13 pm 
Quote:
Did the solid mounts really need to be quite that solid?!
They do look fairly hefty, but they match the mating face of the manifold and they will never fail like the rubber ones. There's nothing wrong with them.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:21 pm 
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I dont understand? It was running before you swopped the carbs, now its not, so you have pulled the ignition system to bit and messed that up? Surely logic would dictate theres a fault with what you have done to the carbs?
Also - a fuel leak wont stop it running, unless its a massive fuel leak thats running out before it gets to the carbs - but that wouls be obvious. You can't "think" theres a fuel leak - there is or there is not.
Start from scratch. Remove the rocker cover. Find TDC on the front pulley and make sure both valves on number 1 are closed - i.e. cams pointing away from the followers. If they are not rotate the engine 360 degrees round to TDC again. Dizzy cap off. Make sure the rotor arm is pointing to a segment in the cap - thats number 1 cylinder. Stick the car in gear and pull it forward - note which way the rotor arm turns. Now count round in that direction the segments in the cap - cylinder 3, 4, then 2. That should sort the firing order. Rotate the engine back round again (2 turns) until the timing marks line up before the TDC mark. Ignition on. Running points still? Set the gap and make sure they are clean. Loosen the dizzy clamp bolts and rotate the dizzy a little back and forth until you see the points close - there will be a visible spark on the points. No spark? check the wiring to the coil and dizzy, also the condensor. Electronic ignition? As above but you wont see a spark - but you will hear the crack from the HT lead as it discharges - be careful, it packs a punch... This should be enough to get the ignition system working and roughly set up. Take the plugs out, spin the engine over to get rid of any excess fuel, clean the plugs, gap em and put em back.
Does it run? then nail the bloody bonnet down! :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:19 pm 
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Yes, I've messed about with the ignition that much that I have to start all over again again from scratch. I have a Sprint dizzy fitted which complicates things slightly.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:42 pm 
Come on Dave, Matt has provided you a systematic approach, follow that then make sure you have fuel being delivered and it will run. Adjust the carbs if necessary after the timing is spot on.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:44 am 
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A pinhole leak on one of the rubber joining sections could be allowing the pump to suck air and not fill the carbs.

This would give the symptoms Dave describes, compounded now by possibly incorrect diagnosis of an ignition fault.

Before the next attempt to start after the ignition is restored as Matt describes I suggest a quick look in a float chamber after cranking

a while to see fuel is getting there. A quick squirt of EasyStart down a carb inlet will also indicate if the ignition is working.

Jonners

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Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:42 pm 
I undo the float chamber lids and pour fuel directly into the float chambers. Then I try to start, because I know I have enough fuel to get it started and I don't waste enegy running the battery down with prolonged cranking just to get fuel to the carbs. If the float chambers are empty again after it has run for a while (or failed to run) it is probably pipes as suggested by Jonners (as well as incorrectly set ignition if it still will not start)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:22 pm 
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A small update:

The replacement centre vent from Alun.
Image

Fitted into place.
Image

While I had the inner choke cable out I gave it a spray of white grease which should prevent any further problems and in future, I shall heed Mart's words of wisdom to prevent a repeat performance. With that out of the way, I turned my attention to the non-starting problem. As some of you know, I have a Sprint dizzy (Lucas 44D4) fitted to my 1850 engine purely to make my life easier. I am considering reinstating the original Delco with a decent electronic ignition system. Because I had to start from scratch with the dizzy, I had a read of the Sprint workshop manual to work out the exact orientation of the rotor arm. This is one of the examples of the limitations of the Haynes which just tells you to mark the position of where everything is when you take it apart so you can put it back together in the same place. This doesn't really help when you're having to set it all up from scratch. The workshop manual shows where the rotor arm is pointing when No. 1 cylinder is at the firing stroke using the tab on the vacuum advance as a rough guide.
Image
I put the cap on and marked the position of the contact for the HT lead on the dizzy body. I found out that I had to rotate the hex shaft one flat clockwise to line up with the mark I'd made on the dizzy body. Having got the position of the rotor arm on the firing stroke for cylinder No. 1, it was a simple matter of connecting the remaining HT leads in the right order. I turned the engine over and there was nothing. I suspected that the timing could be 180 degrees out because the crankshaft turns twice for every turn of the dizzy so I swapped the diagonally opposite HT leads on the cap and it was firing so I removed the dizzy, turned the rotor arm 180 degrees and swapped the HT leads back. It still firing but the engine wouldn't run. I turned my attention back to my new fuel hoses and I could hear some hissing and the ones that had the new clips were weeping and letting air in because I can only tighten them so far. The clips that I'd reused were fine because they are slightly smaller than my new ones so I need some slightly smaller clips to get a good seal. I did remove the float chamber lid on the front carb and there is fuel in it but it wasn't completely full so I think it should be fine once I've nailed this fuel hose problem. I'm happy that the ignition is fine. Also I was running the battery down so I've had it on charge.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:12 pm 
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Same here. I always fill the bowls first. When i was having starvation probs i kept a syringe and petrol pipe to squirt it in without taking the lids off lol
Ign timing is simple when you get the basics, but hard when you dont.

Tony

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:31 pm 
I think it is 180 degrees out, the rotor arm should be pointing to that bolt head at the bottom left of the inlet manifold if number 1 piston is at TDC on completion of compression stroke.

Image

Then number 1 HT lead is in the distributor cab directly above where the rotor arm is pointing.

If you are definitely at TDC on compression, then you could put number 1 lead into the cap for the segment where the arm is pointing and it will still go. I always go for number one being in the position where the rotor is pointing at that bolt head (I think Haynes manual says the same)and engine is at TDC: completion of compression stroke/start of power stroke. that way the timing is usually only a few degrees out and is close enough to get the engine running.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:54 pm 
Actually I just read your post again and you may have number 1 lead in the correct position but you have gone 1-3-4-2 in the wrong direction. I can't remember which way it goes cockwise or aniticlock wise. Keep number 1 in the same position but put the leads in 1-3-4-2 in the other direction see if that cracks it.


clockwise:
1 3
2 4

anti-clockwise:
1 2
3 4


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:59 pm 
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I have never, ever heard a fuel hose "hiss" and they dont let in air. They either leak fuel out or they dont.
Sort the ignition out with the instructions you were given but have ignored days ago and it will run.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:04 pm 
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Karl, on the Delco dizzy the rotor arm does point to one of the inlet manifold bolts when the No. 1 cylinder is firing but the Sprint dizzy is different which is why I had to have a look at the BL Sprint manual. The Haynes is useless for setting up the dizzy from scratch. When the No. 1 piston is at the top of the stroke the rotor arm can be in 1 of 2 positions I happened to get it 180 degrees out.

Tonight, I realized that I indeed had the firing order wrong as Karl has already mentioned. The dizzy turns anticlockwise not clockwise as I said in a previous post (that was because I was turning the engine anticlockwise to line up the timing marks and the dizzy shaft was turning clockwise - D'oh!) so I had the No. 2 & 3 HT leads the wrong way round so I've swapped over the offending HT leads and I'm hoping that I've solved the ignition problem. It was too late to attempt a start-up so I'll have to leave if for another time to see if I have indeed solved it.

I just need to fit some replacement clips for the fuel hose and this little saga should be over.

_________________
Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:00 pm 
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I'm hoping to have a go at getting the engine running tonight. The weather was terrible yesterday (heavy rain and high winds) so I wasn't feeling like going anywhere or doing anything once I'd got home from work (I was absolutely drenched!). The battery has had a good charge so it should get a decent spark. I'm confident that the ignition side is sorted but I'll know when the moment of truth arrives.

_________________
Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


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