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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:03 pm 
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That's bad news. I can't count on two hands anymore the times I had to take off a head because of a valveseat dangling around a valve stem. It does happen often and is only caused by a machineshop that can't do a proper job or doesn't care to do a proper job. There's going to be a chamber machined in the head and the insert, just a ring, is pressed in. The slightes wrong machining can cause the seats fall out the head. Heating the head and freezing the inserts is the way to press them in. Also the situation of determining the machining sizes at those temp differences if not available by the insert manufacturer.

After fitting the insert the seat is machined in the desired shape.

Have the work done at a shop with good reviews or recommended by others. Not a shop what just happened to be around the corner where you don't know the quality of the work of.

Jeroen

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Not TOO far from you Mark, I can thoroughly recommend Head Technique in St Georges Telford (01952 610770) who have been doing all my head work for the past 30 years, not just Triumph but everything else too. Sensible prices as well! I have no connection with the company, other than as a satisfied customer!

Steve

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:01 pm 
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Mark, the other alternative is to fit a reprofiled cam like Kent supply. Smaller base circle so more valve clearance. i did it with mine after a valve job and it runs lovely. Idles well and pulls like a train. Just worth a look unless it has to be stock in your case.

Tony
Quote:
On assembling the head as suggested by Jeroen that the inlet valves in particular do sit too high in the head. I thought I might have been able to work with what I had but even using the thinnest shims I could not get adequate valve clearance. This is very annoying and has led some some heated discussion between myself and the machine shop who insist there is not a problem. I should add I'm not going to go into the details of my experience on a public forum. I suspect the seats have been cut before, the additional cut probably means too much meat has come off them. There is no alternative but to fit new seats. I could probably work with the exhausts which will require shims in the mid 80's but I'm tempted to just have new seats fitted throughout and be done with it. This additional work will also cause my chamber volumes to change so further work may be necessary not to mention the additional handling risks damaging the ready skimmed mating face.

I have other people to speak to about valve seats and fitting but the question is are they easily available? I waited a long time for the head to come back to me, I'm not really in the mood for being messed around.

I'll now have to strip the head back to bare again and hope for better luck the second time around. It's just annoying that until you start to shim the thing up you cannot be 100% sure.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:47 pm 
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Mark, the other alternative is to fit a reprofiled cam like Kent supply. Smaller base circle so more valve clearance. i did it with mine after a valve job and it runs lovely. Idles well and pulls like a train. Just worth a look unless it has to be stock in your case.

Tony
Quote:
On assembling the head as suggested by Jeroen that the inlet valves in particular do sit too high in the head. I thought I might have been able to work with what I had but even using the thinnest shims I could not get adequate valve clearance. This is very annoying and has led some some heated discussion between myself and the machine shop who insist there is not a problem. I should add I'm not going to go into the details of my experience on a public forum. I suspect the seats have been cut before, the additional cut probably means too much meat has come off them. There is no alternative but to fit new seats. I could probably work with the exhausts which will require shims in the mid 80's but I'm tempted to just have new seats fitted throughout and be done with it. This additional work will also cause my chamber volumes to change so further work may be necessary not to mention the additional handling risks damaging the ready skimmed mating face.

I have other people to speak to about valve seats and fitting but the question is are they easily available? I waited a long time for the head to come back to me, I'm not really in the mood for being messed around.

I'll now have to strip the head back to bare again and hope for better luck the second time around. It's just annoying that until you start to shim the thing up you cannot be 100% sure.
The seats are wrong and the valves are too deep. The opening and flow are also less than when the seats and valves are fitted the way they should. It has nothing to do with solving the play issue. There are lot's of folks who grind some of the top of the valve stem to have more play. The issue here is that the seats are wrong and the valves are too deep and that is confirmed by having no play.

Jeroen

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Why not contact Rob McGregor or Ken Clark for recommendations. They both race Sprints and would have loads of experience with heads.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:59 am 
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Well hopefully the head is being sorted, new seat inserts for all 16 valves. A pain both in terms of time and of course the expense but it needs doing so don't really have a choice.

Attention has now turned to the block which has been sitting on my bench since August last year when I moved it from the old house. I do have an engine stand but actually for what I need to attach at the moment I don't really need to use it so for now it's staying on the bench.

Some time ago I fitted the crank, rods and pistons so in some respects the hard work has already been done. First jobs were to fit the new rear crank seal, cover and oil pick up, all easy jobs. My rear seal came complete with the cover so didn't even have to fit it. I looked at my old one again and it had a huge tear in which would explain why it was so covered in oil.

Next the sump. Been moving it around for ages so I thought why not fit it. I've actually just parked in on loosely for now as I may want to remove it for a last minute check of things. The moved onto the timing gear and jackshaft. I spent a few hours tidying up and finding some suitable bolts before fitting the various parts. This will need checking and is far from 'done' but at least I know how it all goes together. Note I have fitted a proper timing chain and tensioner, not Chinesium ones. I've also replaced the camshaft pulley, the old one had several damaged teeth. I may yet fit a vernier one, depends on how far out I am as the head has been skimmed.

Image

My last jobs will be to install the oil pump, transfer housing and engine mounting brackets. I can then check everything and properly fit the front cover and sump. From here I'll go back to the head before working on my engine fitting plan. At that point I can use the crane to support the engine whilst I fit the back plate, flywheel, clutch and adapter before mating to the gearbox. I am currently remembering what a horrible job getting the engine out was and with lots of shiny things in the way I was wondering whether it might be possible to fit the engine minus the head to give me a bit more space. Food for thought anyway.

I won't fit the water pump, dizzy, carbs etc until the engine is installed. Might as well save some weight.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:46 pm 
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I would fit the head and get the timing sorted on the chain before fitting the ffront cover.
I'd also check the spring tension on the rear crank oil seal unless you are confident of its provenance.

I think its easier to fit the whole engine with pump and manifolds etcall in place than refit it peacemeal to a bare block in the bay myself.


Jonners

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:52 pm 
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You raise a good point there Jon regarding the timing cover, of course it makes sense to do the timing first. The rear seal, hopefully OK. It came in an Austin Rover box as a complete assembly.

Hopefully the head will be ready end of next week.

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 Post subject: Okay....
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Quote:
Well hopefully the head is being sorted, new seat inserts for all 16 valves. A pain both in terms of time and of course the expense but it needs doing so don't really have a choice.
:(
You paid to have the head refurbished, the repairer took your money and didn't do said job properly?
When this was pointed out their response is to tough it out?

With a display of dishonesty such as this it is easy to see why the motor trade in general has such a poor reputation (tarred brush.....)





Ian.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:23 pm 
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To be fair I did not originally ask for the seats to be measured or checked, I kinda assumed they'd be OK. It was unfortunate that they were not. I'm more than happy with the work I asked for which was to clean the head, port and polish it, fit new valve guides and lightly skim.

The issue I had was following up when the response I got was not the answer I was looking for being one of 'use thinner shims' or 'grind the valve tips' which when you're probably 20 thou out is not really possible, nor does it make the problem go away. I therefore took the decision to take my business elsewhere to have new seats fitted by someone who totally understands the issue.

In a nutshell it hasn't actually ended up costing me any more it total, it's just I had hoped NOT to have to replace the seat inserts.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:16 am 
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If youre fitting engine from above, definitely have the head , exhaust manifold and down pipe fitted. With gearbox on,what I do Is set the slings/chains on the hoist so they hold the engine /box slightly down at the rear. THEN, with a second sling or rope, tie to the rear of the box where the mount goes and pull this rope towards the beam of the engine crane and wrap it around several times. This gives you the angle to clear the slam panel and get the back of the box through the tunnel. As you get the sump over the slam panel you can start releasing the "extra" sling a bit at a time while pushing the lot in.
Eventually, the sling will be redundant and itll be hovering and a decent angle so a jack can be placed under the box and levelled up.
If you have a spare pair of hands with you it should be fairly easy. I have done it this way on my own but its fiddly :)

Tony

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Picked up yesterday having had 16 new valve seat inserts fitted. Very pleased that the chap there seems to 'get it' and did as asked. He had all the bits so was able to cut the seats to a size so I can then shim it up properly.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Back on the bench it's definately much better than it was

Image

Image

Valves, springs etc all fitted and today I did my first set of trial shims and calculated what I need. I now need to check my tin of shims and see which ones I need. All nicely in range, some can be swapped around. I suspect I may need some specific ones but wait and see.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:43 pm 
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looks a nice job

Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:22 pm 
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Well on measuring my extensive collection of shims I'm missing only 4, 2 of which are the same size so I'll have to see which ones we have at work in the Lotus drawer. Seems I have plenty of other sizes so can probably help others out too if they're stuck.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:01 am 
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Sadly we didn't have the shims I required at work so I figured I'd order some new ones from QED Motorsport as they're not very expensive. They arrived pretty quickly so I shimmed up the head and double checked. As is my luck I had 3 shims incorrect for some reason. Perhaps I had not measured correctly or consistently, the workshop manuals I don't think are very clear. Anyway another 3 shims ordered.

I was determined this would be the final build up so gave the buckets and cam and journals a good coating of cam lube and graphogen, placed the shims and went for it. All re-assembled it seems good. A couple more times round checking and I'm quite satisfied with the end result. Brushed on a bit more cam lube and the head is now ready to be fitted to the rest of the engine at some point.

Image

Image

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