The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

cheers
yeh i dont really no that much about fords but i hear that unreliability comes as standard
my dad has a 2.0 audi coupe and that is pretty central to be honest (fast as f*ck as well )
well ill be cutting the original driveshafts down bespoke ones can be expensive and im on a tight budget
im hoping to start as soon as i can get a doner so i should be gettin some progress pictures up soon

tom

Enjoy the kebab, a pal of mine always does his best work after one of those horrid things too, must be something in that oily bathful of offal that feeds the brain.

The Audi engines sit entirely ahead of the front hubs as they have a transaxle behind the engine, so in that sense, the transfer box of the Sierra/Granada arrangement lends itself more readily as it's under the sump.
The Alfa engine is short, so could possibly work with a transaxle in the Dolly shell. It is, however, pretty wide so I'd be very surprised if it would fit within the Dolly engine bay width-wise.

oops donor missed that one

so which do you think wuold be the better choice?
do think sierra running gear would fit to the audi engine and box?

No.

haha ok
will see if i can find a quattro and have a measure.
dont really want to use ford or alfa as i dont really want to be constantly breaking down all the time

The Quattro's transaxle would put the engine some way forward of the front bumper as it fits North-South but is all ahead of the gearbox. Even Audi themselves found it necessary to fit the radiator to the side of the engine bay for that reason. (Image attached). Other Sierra 4x4s aside from the XR4 are available and they're not especially prone to trouble apart from broken timing chains on DOHCs; easily predicted if you keep an eye on the state of the guides and service them regularly with decent oil. Plus you could fit something newer to that gearbox, something from the Zetec family for example. The Sierra's front Diff is part of its transfer box and sits under the sump, so would, given that neither option's exactly half an Hour's work, be the easier place to start.
The Audi is a FWD car with a takeoff to the back, the Ford is a RWD car with a transfer case and front diff added, so is far closer to the Pony's layout which means that you've more chance of fitting the Ford's bits to a Dolomite shell.


See how far ahead of the front hub centre line that Quattro engine sits? It's far too long for a Dolly, which has just enough room for its own engine so an IL5 is unlikely to go in, even if it could be mounted further back, which - because of the transmission layout - it couldn't.

i wont be using the 5 cylinder like the one in the picture i will be using one of these which should give me a bit more clearance evan if i have to use a smaller but much thicker radiator and side mount it

Seems you've made your mind up there, good luck with that.

well im not 100% but id rather use audi than anything else, its all down to the measurements really if it wont fit at all then i will have no choice but to use somthing else. i just want to explore this option fully before using something i will never be happy with if that makes sense

Makes perfect sense, indeed the most important part of this, more than any other job, is going to be the measuring, not only of the areas of the recipient car that need to be modified but also of any engine that you view with the conversion in mind.

Consider also that nobody would think you any less capable if you were to change your mind completely and opt for the relatively straightforward options of tuning the existing engine, going for a Rover V8 or choosing something less complex than your - admittedly quite exciting - idea of the 4x4 option which, if you could sneak it past SVA somehow, would be groundbreaking.

SVA?
yeh i have thought about all the other options but they have been done so many times i didnt want it to be ''just another dolly v8''
i wanted somting no has done before and this was my conclusion

Possibly. I know that it's harder to modify nowadays without having to comply and that major mods with bits from a variety of cars, especially when those cars are post-1972 in the case of engine swaps, can result in cars being issued with a Q when the original content is too difficult to establish or to assign a points value to but, elsewhere on the forum, the point has been raised that even big wheelarch extensions can amount to sufficiently major shell modification to require the test, so best you're aware of that sooner, rather than later, just in case the end product isn't allowed to be used on the roads of this country.

This is research that must be done long before you even think about acquiring the parts to carry out the work.

ahh i had heard about that they have chaged the laws about modding but didnt know it was that strict . may have to keep a sleeper look and hope i never crash it

The rules havn't been changed, the 8 point rules for a cars id have been around for 28 years, it's just that everybody ignored them them prior to the introduction on SVA in '98. Then only most people ignored them. SVA went a couple of years back to be replaced by IVA which is a slightly stiffer test. The big difference now is that with compurtised MOTs it's going to be easier to enforce. This has been a hot subject in the hot rodding world for a while now with many content to bury their heads in the sand. There are a huge amount of incorrectly registered rods out there and some people will find that eventually their logbooks get pulled and they have a car they can't drive.
It doesn't matter how much MOT, tax and insurance you have, if it's not correctly registered it's not legal.

Now enough of the negativity. There are two ways to attempt your project and keep it legal.
The first is no build the car in such a way that it can retain it's original id and IVA is not required. The components are allocated a number of points and you have to score 8 as follows:
UNMODIFIED monocoque shell: 5 points
Both axles : 2 points
Suspension : 2 points
Steering : 2 points.
Gearbox : 2 points
Engine : 1 point

First off I'd stick with the Sierra stuff. It'll be easier to package and theer is a choice of engines that will fit the gearbox. IF you can get the box into the shell without cutting it then it's woth considering this route. The gearbox tunnel unbolts on a dolly so that gives you a little bonus. If you used the Triumph FWD uprights that would give you front driveshafts. You'd lose both the axle points but you'd still be able to use the standard type suspension and steering, 2 each, add the 5 for the body and you have enough.
That's the route I've gone with my current project, a 50 year old hillman getting a new engine, box and axle.
By the way the DVLA consider suspension the be the springs and shocks and everything elae betwwen the wheels to be axles. the brakes are free, play with them as much as you like.
Also the 8 points MUST include the UNMODIFIED shell. if you lose those it's IVA time and so onto plan B, a "radically altered " vehicle.

If I was attempting this I'd build it from the start to pass the IVA test. I'd use all the running gear from the Sierra, a 2.9 Efi one, and I'd cut out the inner wings and front chassis rails from the Dolly and weld in the same sections from the donor Sierra. Then hey presto all the front end stuff, engine, box from the donor just bolts in. I'd do the same at the back with the IRS. You'd probably find the track is now too wide but that's what wide arches are for. The Steering column from the Sierra would solve another couple of IVA issues as well. There would undoubtedly have to be some modifaications inside the car to pass the projections part of the test . Potentailly the biggest headache is glass which must carry the current E marking however an exemption is in place until sometime in 2013 to allow BS marked glass to comply. When the test is passed a Q plate is alocated.

The IVA testers manual is available to download on the VOSA website and while it takes a bit of effort to find the bits that apply all the information you need to build a fully legal car is there. Also there is a lot of usefull info on the Association of Car Enthusiasts website. ACE follow this sort of legislation on our behalf and lobby for the modifyer. the Glass marking exemption is an example of their work.
Your car would need to comply with Basic IVA commonly refered to as BIVA.

I suspect registration issues for heavily modified cars that don't comply are still a few years away but they will come and anyone starting a new project would be wise to take a good look at the rules.
It is possible to build a compliant car and I suspect easier to do that to rectify not compliant issues later.
Personally I think it's a great idea for a car, with around 160 bhp from a 2.9 ford engine and four wheel drive it could be a serious giggle.
Sorry for the long rambling post

thanks for the info i will have a scan through the bunf and adjust my plans to suit. mabye the sierra idea is better noone seems to like the audi idea