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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:28 pm 
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Ive fitted one to my Toledo, No problem in fitting it to car.

Alan

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1972 Triumph Toledo PKS 379L Emerald green
1974 Triumph Stag
1993 Vauxhall Corsa Died now growing flowers in it
11 Vintage Tractors
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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:43 pm 
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During the early-1980s, I retro-fitted to my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300, front & rear anti-roll bars which I had salvaged from a Triumph Dolomite Sprint. They were easy to fit; requiring no modifications.

After retro-fitting the anti-roll bars, a particular bend produced the same degree of body roll at 40 mph as it had at 30 mph prior to fitting the anti-roll bars.

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Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:55 pm 
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Location: Colchester, Essex
Not Much to report on the Toledo, i've only managed about 800miles since the respray! Recently passed the mot and the testers advise was, Mat you need to use this more! So that weekend I gave it a good run around Essex Suffolk and Cambridgeshire. After about 100miles things started to go slightly wrong, the revs started to drop. I Popped open to bonnet to reveal a nice stream of petrol out of the float bowl. The Float needle had got stuck and the float bowl was full of rubbish. I;ve got a plastic fuel filter inline before the fuel pump, so I guess the rubbish in the fuel filter was coming from the fuel pump its self (looks like the original pump). Bit of fiddling and the car was up and running again.
Once home I stripped down the carb and gave it a rebuild, with the kit I had purchased some 12 months ago! New float needle set, jet etc.

After clean up
Image
Also ordered a new fuel pump. Cheap at £20 but the leaver was really poorly finished. So I set about it with a file then fine emery paper to get a much smoother finish like the original pump.
Image
Part way through cleaning up the lever

Pump and carb fitted, new fuel filter. I have also fitted E9 Spec fuel injection hose, to try and future proof the car to stand up to the ethanol content in modern petrol
Image

Reset the ignition timing, did the valve clearances and gave it a good tune up. 200miles later its holding up well
Image

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RetroMat
1972 Toledo: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6OY1otgtVTs
1986 Saab 900
1979 Toyota Hiace camper


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:39 pm 
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Location: Colchester, Essex
nearly 4 years since the respray, Its holding up well. I've done just under 1000miles this year. Toledo is out most weekends now getting enjoyed!
Image
Image

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RetroMat
1972 Toledo: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6OY1otgtVTs
1986 Saab 900
1979 Toyota Hiace camper


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Hi Matt, The Toledo looks brilliant, I like the 70s type slots that much I fitted a set to mine,& wow it does stick to the tarmac well.I like using mine, Every day i am out in it & there is always someone comes talking to me about Triumphs. I think it brightens up there day seeing a old car in use.

well done Alan

Image

_________________
1972 Triumph Toledo PKS 379L Emerald green
1974 Triumph Stag
1993 Vauxhall Corsa Died now growing flowers in it
11 Vintage Tractors
2007 Isuzu Rodeo


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Quote:
NickMorgan: thanks! just got to do the other wing now! then it will be respray time i think.

JBT:
it was on steelies with hubcaps
Image
2 of the wheels still have the orignal tyres on!

then sprint wheels:
Image
got fed up of the tyres consantly going flat!

so got the slot mags, they are dated 1974 so right for the car 8)
Image

appart from the springs and poly bushes + the wheels its pretty much a standard car, just gone past 45k on the clock and I'd quite happily drive it any where!
I don't know for how long my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL Special" was equipped with the original factory-fitted 4J x 13 inch steel wheels and 155 SR13 tyres, because when my father bought it in May 1975, it had already been retro-fitted with Cosmic 5½ x 13 inch aluminium-alloy wheels shod with 175 SR13 (not 175/70 SR13) tyres.

I later fitted 185/70 R13 tyres on these wheels in 1987 and then substituted Dolomite Sprint wheels in 1996, retaining the same 185/70 R13 tyres.

At some time in the not too distant future, I shall be probably be substituting a set of five MG Maestro 15 x 5½J inch cross-lattice style wheels, but I have yet to finalise what sized tyres I will use. It's likely to be a toss-up between 185/65 R15 and 185/55 R15 tyres, dependent upon what final-drive ratio I choose to use.

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Quote:
NickMorgan: thanks! just got to do the other wing now! then it will be respray time i think.

JBT:
it was on steelies with hubcaps
Image
2 of the wheels still have the orignal tyres on!

then sprint wheels:
Image
got fed up of the tyres consantly going flat!

so got the slot mags, they are dated 1974 so right for the car 8)
Image

appart from the springs and poly bushes + the wheels its pretty much a standard car, just gone past 45k on the clock and I'd quite happily drive it any where!
I don't know for how long my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL Special" was equipped with the original factory-fitted 4J x 13 inch steel wheels and 155 SR13 tyres, because when my father bought it in May 1975, it had already been retro-fitted with Cosmic 5½ x 13 inch aluminium-alloy wheels shod with 175 SR13 (not 175/70 SR13) tyres.

I later fitted 185/70 R13 tyres on these wheels in 1987 and then substituted Dolomite Sprint wheels in 1996, retaining the same 185/70 R13 tyres.

At some time in the not too distant future, I shall be probably be substituting a set of five MG Maestro 15 x 5½J inch cross-lattice style wheels, but I have yet to finalise what sized tyres I will use. It's likely to be a toss-up between 185/65 R15 and 185/55 R15 tyres, dependent upon what final-drive ratio I choose to use.
What did you do with the Cosmics you took off Nigel? They are quite sought after these days!

!85/55/15 seems to be the tyre of choice for most 15" afficionados. Except me of course, never one to go with the pack, I prefer a 195/50!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't know for how long my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL Special" was equipped with the original factory-fitted 4J x 13 inch steel wheels and 155 SR13 tyres, because when my father bought it in May 1975, it had already been retro-fitted with Cosmic 5½ x 13 inch aluminium-alloy wheels shod with 175 SR13 (not 175/70 SR13) tyres.

I later fitted 185/70 R13 tyres on these wheels in 1987 and then substituted Dolomite Sprint wheels in 1996, retaining the same 185/70 R13 tyres.

At some time in the not too distant future, I shall be probably be substituting a set of five MG Maestro 15 x 5½J inch cross-lattice style wheels, but I have yet to finalise what sized tyres I will use. It's likely to be a toss-up between 185/65 R15 and 185/55 R15 tyres, dependent upon what final-drive ratio I choose to use.
What did you do with the Cosmics you took off Nigel? They are quite sought after these days!

!85/55/15 seems to be the tyre of choice for most 15" afficionados. Except me of course, never one to go with the pack, I prefer a 195/50!

Steve
When I was teaching at Basildon College during 1995~96, I swopped the set of five Cosmic wheels for the set of five Dolomite Sprint wheels, with two brothers who wanted them for a Triumph Spitfire project they were working on. The Cosmic wheels' 21 mm offset was more appropriate to their Spitfire and the Dolomite Sprint wheels' 35 mm offset was more appropriate to my Toledo, so it seemed like a good deal! :)

I've already got two 185/55 R15 tyres (one nearly new), on two of my seven MG Maestro 15 x 5½J inch cross-lattice style wheels, with 31 mm offset, so I might get three more part-worn 185/55 R15 tyres for £20 each and give them a try. One of my concerns is increased ride harshness on uneven roads and greater susceptibility to tyre & wheel damage from impacts (something a strenuously try to avoid!) with potholes, road-debris and curb-stones.

Image

I've also got a set of five MG Montego 15 x 6J inch cross-lattice style wheels, with 28 mm offset, which are of virtually identical appearance, as with the MG F & MG TF 15 inch wheels, this rim-width & offset are probably less well suited to the Toledo, without modifying the outboard lips of the rear wheel-arches; even with 185/55 R15 or 185/65 R15 tyres.

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:43 pm 
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Quote:
Blimey, those lights look absolutely ruddy brilliant...!!!

I have been promising myself a bit of added illumniation ever since I took my Toledo to France and realised that night time driving in the French countryside was rather quite scary!

I have some period Lucas 'Square 8' spotlamps that I will fit at some juncture and looking at those Halogens I am going to have to source some of those one day (soon) too...!

I have to say that your project is now fully becoming my inspiration... :wink:
I used to have a single Lucas Square-8 spot-lamp & single Lucas Square-8 fog-lamp fitted beneath the front bumper of my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300, but didn't find them very effective. In the mid-1980s, I substituted a pair of 7 inch Lucas 20-20 Homofocal auxiliary driving lamps above the front bumper and a pair of 7 inch Lucas 20-20 Homofocal fog lamps below, which gave much better illumination under all driving conditions; complementing the Lucas Brighteyes quartz-halogen headlamps that I substituted in mid-1976!

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Quote:
update from my retro-rides thread

Axle Swap! I've done a few longer journeys in the Toledo this year, at 60mph the little 1300 is over 4000rpm! not brilliant. So I've finally got round to cleaning up and fitting the 1500TC 3.89 :1 rear axle I've had in my garage for the last couple of years. Should bring the rpm down a little with out dulling the acceleration so much. Current diff is a 4.11 :1.

Cars all back together now, fresh ep90 in the diff and gear box, the new axle is nice a quiet and has dropped the rpm at 60 by 300 or so, certainly a improvement.
Your assertion that at a true road speed of 60 mph, the 1300 engine is revving at more than 4000 rpm would seem to be somewhat exagerated, unless you are actually driving it in 3rd gear!

Page 60 of my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 owners' handbook, specifies that with a 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, the effective gearing in 3rd and 4th gears as being 848 and 607 engine rpm respectively, at a road speed of 10 mph, which equates to 5088 and 3642 engine rpm respectively at 60 mph.

Assuming that you're using 175/70 R13 tyres on those slotted aluminium alloy wheels, rather than 155 R13 tyres, which are of similar external circumference, we can use a little basic mathematics to check this:

1 Statute mile = 1760 yards, 1 yard = 36 inches & 1 inch = 25•399 mm

Hence 1 Statute mile => 1609280•64 mm = 1609300 mm to 5 S.F.

External circumference of 175/70 R13 tyre = Pi (i.e. 3•14159 to 6 S.F.) x [(175 x 2 x 0•70) + (13 x 25•399)] = 1807•0 mm to 5 S.F.

At 10 mph, 175/70 R13 rear tyres' mean rotational speed (rpm) = (10 x 1609300) / (1807•0 x 60) = 148•4 rpm


Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 10 mph = 4•11 x 148•4 = 610•1 rpm

Using 4th gear & 3•89:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 10 mph = 3•89 x 148•4 = 577•4 rpm


Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 55 mph = 610•1 x 5•5 = 3355 rpm


Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 60 mph = 610•1 x 6 = 3660 rpm

Using 4th gear & 3•89:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 60 mph = 577•4 x 6 = 3464 rpm


Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 65 mph = 610•1 x 6•5 = 3965 rpm

Using 4th gear & 3•89:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 65 mph = 577•4 x 6•5 = 3753 rpm


Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 70 mph = 610•1 x 7 = 4270 rpm (i.e. > 4000 rpm)

Using 4th gear & 3•89:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 70 mph = 577•4 x 7 = 4042 rpm (i.e. > 4000 rpm)


Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 83 mph (supposedly the maximum speed!?!) = 610•1 x 8•3 = 5063 rpm


Maximum engine torque is said to occur at 3300 rpm, so with a 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, a true road speed of 55 mph, would probably be a more appropriate speed for economical cruising.

Based on my experiences with the 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, used in conjunction with 175 SR13 (not 175/70 SR13) and 185/70 R13 tyres, and allowing for the change in speedometer & odometer calibration, I envisage you gaining about 10% improvement in fuel economy, as a consequence of just substituting the 3•89:1 final-drive ratio.

What effect there would be on fuel economy and driveability as a consequence of substituting a 3•63:1 final-drive ratio (as used on the late-model Triumph Dolomite 1500 & 1500HL), I don't know, but I sometimes wonder. I have been told that a late-model Triumph Herald 13/60 estate with a Triumph Spitfire overdrive gearbox copes quite happily with the use of overdrive, but the Herald is probably lighter and of smaller frontal area (re aerodynamic drag) than the Toledo.

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Colchester, Essex
Quote:
Hi Matt, The Toledo looks brilliant, I like the 70s type slots that much I fitted a set to mine,& wow it does stick to the tarmac well.I like using mine, Every day i am out in it & there is always someone comes talking to me about Triumphs. I think it brightens up there day seeing a old car in use.

well done Alan

Image
Many Thanks Rag top!, I'm glad I settled on the slots in the end, I defiantly prefer them over the sprint wheels.

I really should be using the car more! Like you say the old cars certainly make people smile. Your car looks spot on!

naskeet:

I think I would have kept the Cosmics for looks alone. Like Carledo says a rare wheel these days.

Re the rear axle, probably 4000rpm was an exaggeration, i'm only going on what the rev counter said! Its a 70s TIM gauge so I doubt its very accurate. Plus the speedo needle used to wobble about like mad before I renewed the speedo cable.
But in conclusion the Toledo went from revving its head off at 60mph to revving its head off a bit less with the new axle with out losing much in the way of acceleration! A nice bit of info there none the less, thanks!

_________________
RetroMat
1972 Toledo: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6OY1otgtVTs
1986 Saab 900
1979 Toyota Hiace camper


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2014 3:38 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Canvey Island, Essex
Quote:
Quote:
Hi Matt, The Toledo looks brilliant, I like the 70s type slots that much I fitted a set to mine,& wow it does stick to the tarmac well.I like using mine, Every day i am out in it & there is always someone comes talking to me about Triumphs. I think it brightens up there day seeing a old car in use.

well done Alan

Image
Many Thanks Rag top!, I'm glad I settled on the slots in the end, I defiantly prefer them over the sprint wheels.

I really should be using the car more! Like you say the old cars certainly make people smile. Your car looks spot on!

naskeet:

I think I would have kept the Cosmics for looks alone. Like Carledo says a rare wheel these days.

Re the rear axle, probably 4000rpm was an exaggeration, i'm only going on what the rev counter said! Its a 70s TIM gauge so I doubt its very accurate. Plus the speedo needle used to wobble about like mad before I renewed the speedo cable.
But in conclusion the Toledo went from revving its head off at 60mph to revving its head off a bit less with the new axle with out losing much in the way of acceleration! A nice bit of info there none the less, thanks!
I liked the appearance of the Cosmic wheels, but they were not as practical as the Dolomite Sprint wheels.

Archived 1972 brochure of after-market Cosmic aluminium-alloy wheels

http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.u ... ls1972.pdf

Owing to the spoke construction and the very thick outboard & inboard wheel-rim edges, it wasn't practical to use clip-on balancing weights and there were severe limitations regarding where one could position outboard stick-on balancing weights.

When I substituted low-profile 185/70 SR13 tyres, the 21 mm offset combined with the resulting change in steering-offset (aka tyre scrub-radius), contrived to cause blink-of-an-eye sudden changes from under-steer to over-steer when negotiating bends under power. :shock: After changing over to Dolomite Sprint wheels with the same tyres swopped over, this under-steer to over-steer effect suddenly vanished; thankfully! :P

The Cosmic wheels in combination with 175 SR13 tyres (not 175/70 SR13 tyres) had perfectly civilised steering characteristics, but it would be extremely difficult to source tyres of that size (6 options) these days; especially good-quality ones (circa £230~£350 each) at a reasonable price. At the moment, Mytyres.com have some cheap foreign 175/80 R13 tyres at £36.80 and £64.20, plus fitting & balancing, but sourcing these in future years is likely to become ever more difficult and expensive.

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... +for+tyres

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... p=R-278661

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... p=R-220104

Even my existing 185/70 R13 tyre size (33 options) is not particularly common these days, compared to either 185/55 R15 (226 options) or 185/65 R15 (384 options) tyre sizes.

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... ologation=

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... ologation=

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... ologation=

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:41 pm
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Location: dumfries
I am on 175/70x13 and i have fitted a spitfire 1500 diff 3.65, It has a lot lower revs at 60 mph

_________________
1972 Triumph Toledo PKS 379L Emerald green
1974 Triumph Stag
1993 Vauxhall Corsa Died now growing flowers in it
11 Vintage Tractors
2007 Isuzu Rodeo


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 Post subject: Re: 1972 Toledo
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:10 pm 
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Quote:
I am on 175/70x13 and i have fitted a spitfire 1500 diff 3.65, It has a lot lower revs at 60 mph
How would you characterise the car's changes in performance, hill-climbing ability, top speed and fuel economy, as a consequence of changing the final-drive ratio from 4.11:1 to 3.65:1 (or is it actually 3.63:1); keeping in mind the change in odometer calibration and associated accuracy (not precision which remains unchanged)?

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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