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1972 Toledo http://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=20141 |
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Author: | naskeet [ Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1972 Toledo |
During the early-1980s, I retro-fitted to my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300, front & rear anti-roll bars which I had salvaged from a Triumph Dolomite Sprint. They were easy to fit; requiring no modifications. After retro-fitting the anti-roll bars, a particular bend produced the same degree of body roll at 40 mph as it had at 30 mph prior to fitting the anti-roll bars. |
Author: | Mat.T [ Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1972 Toledo |
nearly 4 years since the respray, Its holding up well. I've done just under 1000miles this year. Toledo is out most weekends now getting enjoyed! |
Author: | naskeet [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1972 Toledo |
Quote:
NickMorgan: thanks! just got to do the other wing now! then it will be respray time i think.
I don't know for how long my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL Special" was equipped with the original factory-fitted 4J x 13 inch steel wheels and 155 SR13 tyres, because when my father bought it in May 1975, it had already been retro-fitted with Cosmic 5½ x 13 inch aluminium-alloy wheels shod with 175 SR13 (not 175/70 SR13) tyres.JBT: it was on steelies with hubcaps 2 of the wheels still have the orignal tyres on! then sprint wheels: got fed up of the tyres consantly going flat! so got the slot mags, they are dated 1974 so right for the car appart from the springs and poly bushes + the wheels its pretty much a standard car, just gone past 45k on the clock and I'd quite happily drive it any where! I later fitted 185/70 R13 tyres on these wheels in 1987 and then substituted Dolomite Sprint wheels in 1996, retaining the same 185/70 R13 tyres. At some time in the not too distant future, I shall be probably be substituting a set of five MG Maestro 15 x 5½J inch cross-lattice style wheels, but I have yet to finalise what sized tyres I will use. It's likely to be a toss-up between 185/65 R15 and 185/55 R15 tyres, dependent upon what final-drive ratio I choose to use. |
Author: | Carledo [ Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1972 Toledo |
Quote: Quote:
NickMorgan: thanks! just got to do the other wing now! then it will be respray time i think.
I don't know for how long my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL Special" was equipped with the original factory-fitted 4J x 13 inch steel wheels and 155 SR13 tyres, because when my father bought it in May 1975, it had already been retro-fitted with Cosmic 5½ x 13 inch aluminium-alloy wheels shod with 175 SR13 (not 175/70 SR13) tyres.JBT: it was on steelies with hubcaps 2 of the wheels still have the orignal tyres on! then sprint wheels: got fed up of the tyres consantly going flat! so got the slot mags, they are dated 1974 so right for the car appart from the springs and poly bushes + the wheels its pretty much a standard car, just gone past 45k on the clock and I'd quite happily drive it any where! I later fitted 185/70 R13 tyres on these wheels in 1987 and then substituted Dolomite Sprint wheels in 1996, retaining the same 185/70 R13 tyres. At some time in the not too distant future, I shall be probably be substituting a set of five MG Maestro 15 x 5½J inch cross-lattice style wheels, but I have yet to finalise what sized tyres I will use. It's likely to be a toss-up between 185/65 R15 and 185/55 R15 tyres, dependent upon what final-drive ratio I choose to use. !85/55/15 seems to be the tyre of choice for most 15" afficionados. Except me of course, never one to go with the pack, I prefer a 195/50! Steve |
Author: | naskeet [ Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1972 Toledo |
Quote:
Blimey, those lights look absolutely ruddy brilliant...!!!
I used to have a single Lucas Square-8 spot-lamp & single Lucas Square-8 fog-lamp fitted beneath the front bumper of my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300, but didn't find them very effective. In the mid-1980s, I substituted a pair of 7 inch Lucas 20-20 Homofocal auxiliary driving lamps above the front bumper and a pair of 7 inch Lucas 20-20 Homofocal fog lamps below, which gave much better illumination under all driving conditions; complementing the Lucas Brighteyes quartz-halogen headlamps that I substituted in mid-1976!
I have been promising myself a bit of added illumniation ever since I took my Toledo to France and realised that night time driving in the French countryside was rather quite scary! I have some period Lucas 'Square 8' spotlamps that I will fit at some juncture and looking at those Halogens I am going to have to source some of those one day (soon) too...! I have to say that your project is now fully becoming my inspiration... |
Author: | naskeet [ Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1972 Toledo |
Quote:
update from my retro-rides thread
Your assertion that at a true road speed of 60 mph, the 1300 engine is revving at more than 4000 rpm would seem to be somewhat exagerated, unless you are actually driving it in 3rd gear!Axle Swap! I've done a few longer journeys in the Toledo this year, at 60mph the little 1300 is over 4000rpm! not brilliant. So I've finally got round to cleaning up and fitting the 1500TC 3.89 :1 rear axle I've had in my garage for the last couple of years. Should bring the rpm down a little with out dulling the acceleration so much. Current diff is a 4.11 :1. Cars all back together now, fresh ep90 in the diff and gear box, the new axle is nice a quiet and has dropped the rpm at 60 by 300 or so, certainly a improvement. Page 60 of my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 owners' handbook, specifies that with a 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, the effective gearing in 3rd and 4th gears as being 848 and 607 engine rpm respectively, at a road speed of 10 mph, which equates to 5088 and 3642 engine rpm respectively at 60 mph. Assuming that you're using 175/70 R13 tyres on those slotted aluminium alloy wheels, rather than 155 R13 tyres, which are of similar external circumference, we can use a little basic mathematics to check this: 1 Statute mile = 1760 yards, 1 yard = 36 inches & 1 inch = 25•399 mm Hence 1 Statute mile => 1609280•64 mm = 1609300 mm to 5 S.F. External circumference of 175/70 R13 tyre = Pi (i.e. 3•14159 to 6 S.F.) x [(175 x 2 x 0•70) + (13 x 25•399)] = 1807•0 mm to 5 S.F. At 10 mph, 175/70 R13 rear tyres' mean rotational speed (rpm) = (10 x 1609300) / (1807•0 x 60) = 148•4 rpm Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 10 mph = 4•11 x 148•4 = 610•1 rpm Using 4th gear & 3•89:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 10 mph = 3•89 x 148•4 = 577•4 rpm Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 55 mph = 610•1 x 5•5 = 3355 rpm Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 60 mph = 610•1 x 6 = 3660 rpm Using 4th gear & 3•89:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 60 mph = 577•4 x 6 = 3464 rpm Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 65 mph = 610•1 x 6•5 = 3965 rpm Using 4th gear & 3•89:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 65 mph = 577•4 x 6•5 = 3753 rpm Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 70 mph = 610•1 x 7 = 4270 rpm (i.e. > 4000 rpm) Using 4th gear & 3•89:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 70 mph = 577•4 x 7 = 4042 rpm (i.e. > 4000 rpm) Using 4th gear & 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, engine speed at 83 mph (supposedly the maximum speed!?!) = 610•1 x 8•3 = 5063 rpm Maximum engine torque is said to occur at 3300 rpm, so with a 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, a true road speed of 55 mph, would probably be a more appropriate speed for economical cruising. Based on my experiences with the 4•11:1 final-drive ratio, used in conjunction with 175 SR13 (not 175/70 SR13) and 185/70 R13 tyres, and allowing for the change in speedometer & odometer calibration, I envisage you gaining about 10% improvement in fuel economy, as a consequence of just substituting the 3•89:1 final-drive ratio. What effect there would be on fuel economy and driveability as a consequence of substituting a 3•63:1 final-drive ratio (as used on the late-model Triumph Dolomite 1500 & 1500HL), I don't know, but I sometimes wonder. I have been told that a late-model Triumph Herald 13/60 estate with a Triumph Spitfire overdrive gearbox copes quite happily with the use of overdrive, but the Herald is probably lighter and of smaller frontal area (re aerodynamic drag) than the Toledo. |
Author: | naskeet [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1972 Toledo |
Quote: Quote:
Hi Matt, The Toledo looks brilliant, I like the 70s type slots that much I fitted a set to mine,& wow it does stick to the tarmac well.I like using mine, Every day i am out in it & there is always someone comes talking to me about Triumphs. I think it brightens up there day seeing a old car in use.
Many Thanks Rag top!, I'm glad I settled on the slots in the end, I defiantly prefer them over the sprint wheels.well done Alan I really should be using the car more! Like you say the old cars certainly make people smile. Your car looks spot on! naskeet: I think I would have kept the Cosmics for looks alone. Like Carledo says a rare wheel these days. Re the rear axle, probably 4000rpm was an exaggeration, i'm only going on what the rev counter said! Its a 70s TIM gauge so I doubt its very accurate. Plus the speedo needle used to wobble about like mad before I renewed the speedo cable. But in conclusion the Toledo went from revving its head off at 60mph to revving its head off a bit less with the new axle with out losing much in the way of acceleration! A nice bit of info there none the less, thanks! Archived 1972 brochure of after-market Cosmic aluminium-alloy wheels http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.u ... ls1972.pdf Owing to the spoke construction and the very thick outboard & inboard wheel-rim edges, it wasn't practical to use clip-on balancing weights and there were severe limitations regarding where one could position outboard stick-on balancing weights. When I substituted low-profile 185/70 SR13 tyres, the 21 mm offset combined with the resulting change in steering-offset (aka tyre scrub-radius), contrived to cause blink-of-an-eye sudden changes from under-steer to over-steer when negotiating bends under power. After changing over to Dolomite Sprint wheels with the same tyres swopped over, this under-steer to over-steer effect suddenly vanished; thankfully! The Cosmic wheels in combination with 175 SR13 tyres (not 175/70 SR13 tyres) had perfectly civilised steering characteristics, but it would be extremely difficult to source tyres of that size (6 options) these days; especially good-quality ones (circa £230~£350 each) at a reasonable price. At the moment, Mytyres.com have some cheap foreign 175/80 R13 tyres at £36.80 and £64.20, plus fitting & balancing, but sourcing these in future years is likely to become ever more difficult and expensive. https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... +for+tyres https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... p=R-278661 https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... p=R-220104 Even my existing 185/70 R13 tyre size (33 options) is not particularly common these days, compared to either 185/55 R15 (226 options) or 185/65 R15 (384 options) tyre sizes. https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... ologation= https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... ologation= https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop ... ologation= |
Author: | ragtop [ Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1972 Toledo |
I am on 175/70x13 and i have fitted a spitfire 1500 diff 3.65, It has a lot lower revs at 60 mph |
Author: | naskeet [ Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1972 Toledo |
Quote:
I am on 175/70x13 and i have fitted a spitfire 1500 diff 3.65, It has a lot lower revs at 60 mph
How would you characterise the car's changes in performance, hill-climbing ability, top speed and fuel economy, as a consequence of changing the final-drive ratio from 4.11:1 to 3.65:1 (or is it actually 3.63:1); keeping in mind the change in odometer calibration and associated accuracy (not precision which remains unchanged)?
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Author: | grifterkid [ Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1972 Toledo |
This really is the Toledo that makes me want to bring mine up to scratch!!! I love Sprint alloys but you are right in saying they need constant air introduction to them! I shall keep checking back to this thread for inspiration... |
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