The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:35 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Terry the Triumph
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:53 pm 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts: 1549
Mods please move if in wrong place.

Managed to get my 1500HL engine working with help from my dad. He use to tinker with cars in th 70's, so knows his way around the engine. Basically it was horribly setup, timing was wrong, carbs were incorrectly setup, and the accelerator cable with sticking. Massive oil leak appears to be the result of someone not screwing in the oil filter very well. That is all good.

What is not so good is the front of the sills, and now have some nice new inspection holes. Took off the mud guards at the front, which should really be renamed mud traps (really poor design). In short the front of the sills have dirty great rust holes in them. The good news is the rest of the sill feels nice and solid.

So I suppose my question is what to do? I have rang around, and have been told that repair sections are simply unavailable. I have been advised to plate over the area. Now I would like to learn to weld at some point, but the end of the sills look like jacking points, so it not really something an amateur should really have ago at. Any advice would be appreciated.


Top
   
 Post subject: Okay ........
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:37 am 
Offline
TDC Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:22 pm
Posts: 6475
Location: Caithness, Scotland
The sills rust from the inside out.
Try jacking the car up on one sill end, if the sills are sound you will be able to open/close the doors normally.
Also, try prodding at the sill ends from under the back wheel arches......



:( From your description I conclude your car needs outer sills and centre membrane/lower sill repair.
Plating on the outside may pass an MOT but does not restore strength and actually allows things to get worse on the hidden inners.
Sills are vital to the integrity of the bodyshell.



Ian.

_________________
TDC Forum moderator
PLEASE help us to maintain a friendly forum,
either PM or use Report Post if you see anything you are unhappy with. Thanks.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Okay ........
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:51 am 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts: 1549
Quote:
The sills rust from the inside out.
Try jacking the car up on one sill end, if the sills are sound you will be able to open/close the doors normally.
Also, try prodding at the sill ends from under the back wheel arches......



:( From your description I conclude your car needs outer sills and centre membrane/lower sill repair.
Plating on the outside may pass an MOT but does not restore strength and actually allows things to get worse on the hidden inners.
Sills are vital to the integrity of the bodyshell.



Ian.
Well I hope you're wrong, I can actually see into the sills thanks to my inspection hole. The centre strengthener is solid and so are the outer skins. Checked by the very scientific method of sticking a screw driver up the sill and giving everything a whack. It looks like mud has got trapped between the front wing, the front of sill and the mud guard. Leave it there long enough and a hole appears.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Terry the Triumph
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:31 am 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:45 pm
Posts: 11179
Location: Middlesex
Is the bit you are on about is inside the lower front wing?
This comes as part of the original BL replacement cill. The new club cills and several others dont have this as it means taking the wing off to repair it,

As its hidden by the wing you have the option of cutting the lower wing section off to repair it, or some fiddly access. Sometimes you can seperate the lower wing spot welds and bend it away, but its not easy.

I know Terry a bit and I would say that you should have the front wing off to do a proper job and source a better replacement wing that still has the bit aboove the headlights.

As to the set up, well it was fine about 2 years ago as I set the timing up with a strobe. Someone has obviously twiddled since.

Jonners

_________________
Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Terry the Triumph
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:29 pm 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts: 1549
Quote:
Is the bit you are on about is inside the lower front wing?
This comes as part of the original BL replacement cill. The new club cills and several others dont have this as it means taking the wing off to repair it,

As its hidden by the wing you have the option of cutting the lower wing section off to repair it, or some fiddly access. Sometimes you can seperate the lower wing spot welds and bend it away, but its not easy.

I know Terry a bit and I would say that you should have the front wing off to do a proper job and source a better replacement wing that still has the bit aboove the headlights.

As to the set up, well it was fine about 2 years ago as I set the timing up with a strobe. Someone has obviously twiddled since.

Jonners
I know that the PO had a bit of a fiddle to try and get rid of an intermitant misfire. That went away after I fitted Britpart ignition. Found that the timing seemed to be a long way out and the slow running setting (I think that is what it is called), on the carbs was set wrong. Reved OK, but stalled idling. Now have strong spark on all cylinders, no misfire and all sounds well. When I took the plugs out, no sign of any nasty deposits, so happy with the engine.

Yes it is the bit under the wings that has gone, it really is a poor design in that area. Surely BL fitted mudflaps originally to stop all the crud building up there? I would recommend that anyone who has one of these cars takes the mud guards off, and cleans that area throughly.

Going to talk to our mechanic to see what can be done. He use to work on Dolomites back in the 70's, so he knows his way around them. He was able to tall us about all the common rust spots. He also said we were mad, and suggested we buy a 190D instead. The front section has to be done, if the insides haven't rotted, then having water driven down them by the front wheels will do the trick.

The whole front is coming off, the wings are toast, so I don't mind chopping them to get access. The car came with a set of club fibre glass wings, and a front valence. Of course i can't fit these till the sills are done, fibre glass and welding gear don't really mix. Oh well, at least it goes.


Top
   
 Post subject: Okay ........
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:23 pm 
Offline
TDC Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:22 pm
Posts: 6475
Location: Caithness, Scotland
Quote:
I can actually see into the sills thanks to my inspection hole.
That is as may be, but the thing to bear in mind is that the lower seam (where the three sill components are joined) is a moisture trap.
Corrosion spreads from there.
By the time you have large holes in the sill ends it is a racing certainty that the join will be affected, this I know from experience.
You cannot say that you have not been warned.




Ian.

_________________
TDC Forum moderator
PLEASE help us to maintain a friendly forum,
either PM or use Report Post if you see anything you are unhappy with. Thanks.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Okay ........
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:19 pm 
Offline
TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7013
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Quote:
I can actually see into the sills thanks to my inspection hole.
That is as may be, but the thing to bear in mind is that the lower seam (where the three sill components are joined) is a moisture trap.
Corrosion spreads from there.
By the time you have large holes in the sill ends it is a racing certainty that the join will be affected, this I know from experience.
You cannot say that you have not been warned.
Ian.
I can't agree with you completely on this Ian, sure the signs often point this way but in my own experience, my own Toledo had almost identical rot in the front sections (which I managed to repair for its first MOT in my hands, along with a half-hand size hole in the already patched o/s outer sill and knowing the rear sill end had been repaired previously)
2 years later when I finally got round to replacing the patched and tatty outers I was pleasantly surprised to find the the diaphragms and soffits were sound and intact throughout.
In fairness I must add that my car has been Ziebart treated from new, which I am sure has aided its survival, but even so...........
Any 40 year old monocoque is going to be affected by the dreaded tinworm to a greater or lesser extent, you just have to decide for yourself how much of an effect is going to worry you into fixing it! The MOT man won't help you, he can only fail what he can see!

What worries ME is the fact that the original diaphragm panel does NOT join to the soffit/sill joint but to the outer sill only, about 1/2" outboard of that joint with no good way of making good when changing the sill. I got over this by making up an L shaped strip to connect the bottom of the diaphragm to the soffit edge before fitting the sill but i'll bet good money that most people in the past (not so much now) were not so scrupulous and just left the diaphragm (or whatever was left of it) hanging in space! Truly a time bomb waiting to go off!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Terry the Triumph
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:51 pm 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts: 1549
Progress update- I've decided to get a welder and have ago at welding terry myself. So we are clearing out the garage and putting the dolomite in there. It will protect it from the wet, give me somewhere dry to work, and I will be able to use a gas screened mig welder in there. Which from I read is much easier that using gasless mig with flux.

I spent today trying to get an easy win, basically attacked every bubbling bit of paintwork with a file. Once I had dug out all the rust, rust converter, and zinc primer to protect the exposed metal. Glad I did it, I found water collecting under the spare wheel, and now I know where it came from. If you sand down what looks like a few rust bubbles, you often find a pin holes in the metal. There was a hole in the guttering where the bootlid sits. These were letting water into the boot. A bit of filler cured that.


Top
   
 Post subject: Yes ............
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:42 pm 
Offline
TDC Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:22 pm
Posts: 6475
Location: Caithness, Scotland
Quote:
I can't agree with you completely on this Ian, sure the signs often point this way but in my own experience, my own Toledo had almost identical rot in the front sections (which I managed to repair for its first MOT in my hands, along with a half-hand size hole in the already patched o/s outer sill and knowing the rear sill end had been repaired previously)
2 years later when I finally got round to replacing the patched and tatty outers I was pleasantly surprised to find the the diaphragms and soffits were sound and intact throughout.
I did notice that in your restoration thread Steve, yours being the "exception to the rule" :D .


To aid survival, it is practical for access to drill holes in the sills, under where the treadplates go, to ensure any rust proofing
treatment has the best opportunity to protect the outer sills.



Ian.

_________________
TDC Forum moderator
PLEASE help us to maintain a friendly forum,
either PM or use Report Post if you see anything you are unhappy with. Thanks.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Yes ............
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:32 pm 
Offline
TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7013
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:


To aid survival, it is practical for access to drill holes in the sills, under where the treadplates go, to ensure any rust proofing
treatment has the best opportunity to protect the outer sills.



Ian.
Being a 2 door Tolly mine has no tread plates in the footsteps but the ubiquitous yellow plugs used by Ziebart are much in evidence!
I fully intend to lift them out and squirt something into the sill boxes which will hopefully ensure the cars survival for another 40 years, I just haven't decided what to use yet! Any suggestions gratefully recieved! (apologies for slight thread hijack!)

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Yes ............
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:39 pm 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts: 1549
Quote:
Quote:


To aid survival, it is practical for access to drill holes in the sills, under where the treadplates go, to ensure any rust proofing
treatment has the best opportunity to protect the outer sills.



Ian.
Being a 2 door Tolly mine has no tread plates in the footsteps but the ubiquitous yellow plugs used by Ziebart are much in evidence!
I fully intend to lift them out and squirt something into the sill boxes which will hopefully ensure the cars survival for another 40 years, I just haven't decided what to use yet! Any suggestions gratefully recieved! (apologies for slight thread hijack!)

Steve
Actually I did want to ask about this. Do the sills have drain holes? What is the best way of rust proofing?


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Terry the Triumph
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:33 pm 
I really hope you didn't pay the full asking price for this car! I liked the advert but ... Anyway, the very best of luck with the resto and well done for keeping the beast on the road.
Dave


Top
   
 Post subject: Well ............
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:03 pm 
Offline
TDC Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:22 pm
Posts: 6475
Location: Caithness, Scotland
Quote:
Do the sills have drain holes? What is the best way of rust proofing?
On original cars there are a series of plugs along the lower inner sill.
The outer sills have odd stepped bits that may be drain holes?


The best way to rust proof is to spray into the sections from above, ensuring the rust proofer is suitably runny enabling it to flow
into all the crevices.
I have used Bilt Hamber wax but it has only been five years so not really long enough to tell.



Ian.

_________________
TDC Forum moderator
PLEASE help us to maintain a friendly forum,
either PM or use Report Post if you see anything you are unhappy with. Thanks.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited