The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:51 pm 
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That's just the point....

Modern engines need electronics to run at all. They dont have distributors in some cases. And what sort of carb and manifold
are you going to fit to a Jag V6? You cant just bolt on a holley....if there is no manifold like a Rover V8 or old essex or cologne V6.

Have a VERY good think about this before your start on the Jag. I can see it ending in tears...

Jonners

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Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:56 pm 
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Quote:
That's just the point....

Modern engines need electronics to run at all. They dont have distributors in some cases. And what sort of carb and manifold
are you going to fit to a Jag V6? You cant just bolt on a holley....if there is no manifold like a Rover V8 or old essex or cologne V6.

Have a VERY good think about this before your start on the Jag. I can see it ending in tears...

Jonners
By electrical gubbins, I mean the locks and immobilisers, I'll still be using the electric parts that run the engine

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:03 pm 
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Be careful, as the engine management, abs, stability and traction control are all linked. You would be better going for an aftermarket ecu, an emerald, or similar. Also remember, for mot purpose, you'll need to retain the catalysts. When engine swapping, emissions go off the age of the engine.......

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1966 Triumph 1300 Royal Blue
1966 Triumph 2000 Blue
1965 Triumph 2000 black and rust
1967 BSA B40wd green
2018 Jaguar E pace 2018
NOBODY expects the Canley Inquisition!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:00 pm 
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
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Be careful, as the engine management, abs, stability and traction control are all linked. You would be better going for an aftermarket ecu, an emerald, or similar. Also remember, for mot purpose, you'll need to retain the catalysts. When engine swapping, emissions go off the age of the engine.......
This is not quite correct Bruce. For MOT purposes, when the car and engine are not of the same vintage, you may elect to have the car tested to either standard, however, default is the standard for the oldest component (usually the body) since the age of the engine is not easily proveable.
I ran into this when MOTing the Carledo and was asked how I wanted it tested! mostly I just go for the pre 75 "visible smoke check" but once - for the craic - had it tested to the standard for the engine which, being from an 89 car, was not a cat test so it passed with flying colours. In fact it has all the cat equipment except the cat itself and when stinking hot, comes within a whisker of cat test standards, HC and Lambda are within limits and the the CO is only about .5 (limit is .3)
It is possible to put a 50s V8 in a modern shell and have it "visual smoke check only" rather than the cat test it should have......But I don't know anyone who has tested this theory in practice, though I came within shouting distance of buying an 80s BMW 3 series with a 60s SBC fitted!

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:43 am 
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Quote:
Be careful, as the engine management, abs, stability and traction control are all linked. You would be better going for an aftermarket ecu, an emerald, or similar. Also remember, for mot purpose, you'll need to retain the catalysts. When engine swapping, emissions go off the age of the engine.......
So for a stand alone system, what would you suggest? Something like a megasquirt ECU?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:59 pm 
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Megasquirt, or my preference is Emerald

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1966 Triumph 1300 Royal Blue
1966 Triumph 2000 Blue
1965 Triumph 2000 black and rust
1967 BSA B40wd green
2018 Jaguar E pace 2018
NOBODY expects the Canley Inquisition!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:29 pm 
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Quote:
Megasquirt, or my preference is Emerald
Emerald ECU looks like a good one to go with, got some good specification buts quite expensive. Might have to do more saving

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:27 pm 
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How are you getting on? Kind Regards Russell

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Dalgety Bay, Fife, Scotland
1973 (L) Triumph Dolomite 1850 Manual (Non OD), Old English White
2012 (12) Vauxhall Insignia 1800 Exclusiv, Manual (Non OD!!), Technical Grey


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:39 pm 
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How are you getting on? Kind Regards Russell
Been busy with logistical issues for the project. I haven't been working on the car that much, need more room on my garage to take the engine out of both cars

That and to remove the AC chemicals

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:49 pm 
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You'll get there with it , keep the faith! Where there's a will....

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Russell A Macfarlane
Dalgety Bay, Fife, Scotland
1973 (L) Triumph Dolomite 1850 Manual (Non OD), Old English White
2012 (12) Vauxhall Insignia 1800 Exclusiv, Manual (Non OD!!), Technical Grey


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:58 pm 
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You'll get there with it , keep the faith! Where there's a will....
I'll hopefully be getting shot of some stuff this week and once that's gone, I can start removing some of the bigger components

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:36 pm 
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Right, after much discussion with DF and other members of the forum, I've decided to use a different axle on the car as the triumph one will break. I'm debating using either: a ford atlas axle shortened to 48 inches, a ford English axle, or trying to use the jag multi link while retaining the dolomite suspension.

The jagomite suspension will be cheaper but harder to combine the DVLA that it's standard suspension. It could be argued that it's a standard suspension with a supporting wishbone, or that I could argue that the front suspension has been retained and they don't give any further explanation on the points system on whether they mean both front and back is 2 points or if it's 2 for each.

What do you guys think

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:52 pm 
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this is a super project!

it might be prudent to cut the loom down whilst the engine is still fitted to be able to check that it still runs as wires are trimmed off, if its a success it would save a few quid buying an ecu and the resultant rolling road time.
Rear axle wise the English is not much better than the banjo case you have now although it can be upgraded with better halfshafts and many CWP ratios
imo a sprint axle is basically the same as a capri atlas as far as strength goes as ive never found the limits of the halfshafts or the CWP despite some rather severe treatment and loads of torque.

hope this helps


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:14 pm 
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Quote:
this is a super project!

it might be prudent to cut the loom down whilst the engine is still fitted to be able to check that it still runs as wires are trimmed off, if its a success it would save a few quid buying an ecu and the resultant rolling road time.
Rear axle wise the English is not much better than the banjo case you have now although it can be upgraded with better halfshafts and many CWP ratios
imo a sprint axle is basically the same as a capri atlas as far as strength goes as ive never found the limits of the halfshafts or the CWP despite some rather severe treatment and loads of torque.

hope this helps
I was going to ask you what axle you were using as I know your V8 was making a lot more torque than my v6 will. The wiring loom will be kept as much as possible with a separate loom for the engine and ECU. Hmthe only point it will intersect will be the positive of the battery

The sprint axle sounds good, I was going to buy one a few weeks ago Because it came up cheap, can't find a second hand one on eBay at this moment. Was thinking of a hybrid system of a jag multi link set up found on my donor s-type and the triumph drop link. I have worked out how I will be mounting it, just need to do drawings and make it up.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Right, after much discussion with DF and other members of the forum, I've decided to use a different axle on the car as the triumph one will break. I'm debating using either: a ford atlas axle shortened to 48 inches, a ford English axle, or trying to use the jag multi link while retaining the dolomite suspension.

The jagomite suspension will be cheaper but harder to combine the DVLA that it's standard suspension. It could be argued that it's a standard suspension with a supporting wishbone, or that I could argue that the front suspension has been retained and they don't give any further explanation on the points system on whether they mean both front and back is 2 points or if it's 2 for each.

What do you guys think
The DVLA points system works on 2 points (total) for both original axles and BOTH have to be present to get ANY points, ie, its 2 or none. On a Dolomite the front subframe is the "axle" so if you mod that to accept the engine/trans (as I did) both points are gone and you can fit any rear axle you like without further penalty. The same goes for the suspension, 2 points (total) for original front and rear suspension and BOTH must be original to get ANY points. Originality here seems not to exclude altered spring rates and lengths or the fitting of aftermarket shox like Gaz ASPs so long as the original design and mounts are adhered to.
Which is where the Jagomite deal would probably drop you in it, since even if you keep the weak Dolly trailing arms and coilovers, you will have no need for or place to fit the upper arms and will have to install a minimum of 1 track control arm (and realistically 2) each side along with attendant body mountings for them. I think even the limited knowledge of the VOSA testers would balk at that! (If they ever SEE it of course!)
With a car such as you envisage, you might be as well off (and I can't believe i'm saying this) to forget trying to work within the rules, build the best car you can, get your SVA (or whatever they call it this week) and wear your Q plate with pride!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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