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 Post subject: GOO 796 N Restoration
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:16 pm 
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GOO 796 N Restoration: Refurbishing & Further Upgrading a 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300

INTRODUCTION

Having sat unused, on my driveway, for circa 16½ years, covered by a large surplus butyl-rubber garden-pond liner, I have finally decided to commence the restoration, refurbishment, repair and further upgrading, of my four-door, 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300. I initially drove it occasionally from May 1975 to circa 1980/81, later becoming my almost continuous daily-driver car, from circa 1980/81 until early 1999, for study and work. Details of its general history, from May 1975 onward, will be documented in another topic thread, as follows:

40+ Years With a 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL”: There’s Seldom Been a Dull Moment!

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29933

For several months, until early 1999, I had been driving the car relatively little (about 3 miles per week on average) owing to changes in my work & leisure use, and was already contemplating laying it up for a period, for much-needed bodywork refurbishment and other deferred maintenance (including a sloppy, vibrating gear lever and slightly vibrating propeller shaft), when the clutch started to slip after a total mileage of just over 101 thousand miles. After a few more months of use at this mileage use rate, clutch slippage had become so bad, that it is was almost undriveable.

Hence, having my father’s car to fall back on (a 1986 Ford Sierra XR4x4, for which I had always been a named second driver), for the few occasions when I needed the use of a car, I opted to lay-up the Toledo until such time as I needed to use it again. When my father died in September 2011, at the age of 82¼, I enquired about insuring his then 2004 SEAT Leon Cupra 20V Turbo hatchback in my name, but at circa £850 per annum, this cost combined with “professional” servicing, MOT fees and road tax was prohibitive, so the car was sold.

My circumstances are changing, so I either need to buy a second-hand “modern” car (i.e. post 1992), which is not an attractive prospect from my perspective, or restore my Triumph Toledo for hopefully a further 20~30 years of working life.

ASSESSMENT

I haven’t yet had the opportunity to jack-up the car and remove all four road wheels; supporting it on my four light-truck axle stands (much taller than car axle stands), in order to properly inspect the underside of the vehicle and gain sufficient access in order to comfortably undertake any remedial work. In the absence of this inspection, it is already apparent that the following work will be necessary or at least desirable:

Power Train

Before declaring SORN in mid-1999, I established that the propeller shaft’s front UJ - universal joint would again need replacing and had purchased a replacement Quinton Hazell UJ (part No. QL102); this time ensuring that it featured a grease-nipple, to facilitate greasing with my grease-gun, at regular service intervals of not more than 6,000 miles. I had previously removed the blanking-plugs from the propeller shaft’s original central & rear UJs and retro-fitted grease nipples.

Until I remove the gearbox, the condition of the clutch remains uncertain, but vague memories of the last time I drove the car in 1999, suggest that all of the clutch components will probably require replacement; the clutch diaphragm spring having felt extremely weak, as deduced from clutch-pedal pressure.

I have made no attempt to start the engine (no petrol in the fuel tank for the past 16 years), but the crankshaft turns easily using a large adjustable plumbers’ wrench (i.e. Stillson wrench) and the last year I used the car for moderate distances, it was still consistently indicating a fuel consumption rate (calculations based upon odometer readings and petrol top-up volumes) of 37 mpg in summer and 35 mpg in winter, using 185/70 R13 tyres.

When the car was previously fitted with 175 R13 tyres (i.e. equivalent to either 175/80 R13 or 175/82 R13 or 175/83 R13 tyres; I don’t know which!), which had a rolling circumference that was about 5% larger than 185/70 R13 tyres, the indicated fuel consumption rate was 39 mpg in summer and 37 mpg in winter.

If one also compensates for the difference in odometer calibration, the previously used 175 R13 tyres, were giving about 4 mpg or 10% better fuel consumption, so I might either substitute a Triumph Dolomite 1500 final-drive ratio or 15 x 5½ inch wheels (e.g. ex MGF or MG Maestro Turbo) with 185/65 R15 tyres, to regain the better fuel consumption!

Bodywork & Frame

• Repair severe corrosion damage (obvious perforation) to the middle sections of both front A-pillars, adjacent to the front doors’ leading edges, just below the bottom of the front windscreen.
• Repair severe corrosion damage (obvious perforation) to the bottom sections of both rear doors;
• Repair moderate corrosion damage to small localised areas of the bottom sections of both front doors;
• Repair severe corrosion damage (obvious perforation) to the bottom section of the nearside front wing, adjacent to the nearside sill and lower portion of the front door;
• Repair severe corrosion damage (obvious perforation) to the extreme nearside & offside extremities of the upper horizontal portion, of the front nose section, adjacent to the bonnet-lid.
• Repair severe corrosion damage (obvious perforation) to the bulkhead between the engine compartment and passenger cabin, around the nearside drain-hole from the bottom of the heating & ventilation inlet plenum (space below grille in bonnet-lid);
• Repair severe corrosion damage (obvious perforation) to integral frame between the nearside mounting points of the front sub-frame;
• Repair severe corrosion damage (obvious perforation) to the body panel immediately behind the nearside front side-light & direction-indicator lamp unit;
• Refurbish paintwork around remainder of engine compartment periphery, which is exhibiting superficial surface rusting in several areas.

Rust Treatment

There are differing opinions on how best to deal with rust! Some advocate converting it to black iron oxide, or possibly “neutralising” or simply encapsulating it in some way. I believe that complete removal of rust is the preferred option in the long term.

Generally speaking, it is probably advisable to remove the majority of “loose” rust using various abrasive techniques using one or more of sand paper, emery cloth, tungsten carbide “wet & dry” paper, wire wool, scotch-brite pads, wire brushes etc.

Personally, I tend to use an electric drill with rotary wire brushes, which can alternately be fitted either way around on the arbor, to re-align the brush wires. This effectively removes most surface rust as well as the overlaying and surrounding paint. Rust pits can be partially dug out using the sharp point of a scalpel blade, suture cutter (used by medical practitioners), broken hacksaw-blade, needle file or seeker (resembles a sharp needlework pin, mounted in a handle – part of a biological dissection kit).

However, pitted rust can probably best be removed by acid etching. Many proprietory rust removers incorporate either phosphoric acid (said to be found in some soft drinks - responsible for eroding tooth enamel) or citric acid (commonly used as a limescale remover). Ideally, the rusty object is best treated by completely immersing it in a plastic container (e.g. bowl or bucket) of dilute, aqueous phosphoric acid solution. One almost immediately notices gas bubbles fizzing at the site of any rust, as the rust is slowly dissolved away.

How long one needs to leave the rusty object in the acid solution, will depend upon the thickness of rust deposits, plus the temperature and concentration of the acid solution. Phosphoric acid seems to preferentially attack the rust, but once the rust is gone, the acid will continue to slowly dissolve away the steel, as I know from past experience.

A reasonable guide is to leave the object in the acid solution until all the noticeable gas fizzing has abated or perhaps a little longer. In many cases, it might take several hours or even days, to completely etch out serious rust pits, but one should regularly monitor the process.

_________________
Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:04 pm 
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I can't think of any components of a Dolomite whose operation is adversely affected by rust that would fit in a bowl or bucket of acid, which parts did you have in mind?

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1500 MG Midget
Absence of a Dolly or Tolly at the moment.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:02 pm 
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Quote:
I can't think of any components of a Dolomite whose operation is adversely affected by rust that would fit in a bowl or bucket of acid, which parts did you have in mind?
So far, I have treated the disassembled Smith's heating & ventilation system components, plus the parcel-shelf brackets, battery retaining clamp, brake-servo bracket and much of the servo unit. Once I have drilled out the twelve rivets, I shall similarly treat the cooling-system's radiator side brackets.

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Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:18 pm 
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Fantastic Nigel, having read your other post I'm really looking forward to the updates and any period / up to date photos you may have :D kind regards Russell

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Russell A Macfarlane
Dalgety Bay, Fife, Scotland
1973 (L) Triumph Dolomite 1850 Manual (Non OD), Old English White
2012 (12) Vauxhall Insignia 1800 Exclusiv, Manual (Non OD!!), Technical Grey


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:12 pm 
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Yep, I suppose there are items that can be treated in acid as you have identified. To be honest I have always been a user of 'the tool' (wire brush), flap wheels and surface prep wheels (heavy duty scourers) they are pretty good for rust removal with limited damage to surfaces.

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1500 MG Midget
Absence of a Dolly or Tolly at the moment.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:14 pm 
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Quote:
Fantastic Nigel, having read your other post I'm really looking forward to the updates and any period / up to date photos you may have :D kind regards Russell
Photographs are likely to very sporadic, as I don't photograph everything and I only have my 35 mm colour-reversal film processed, once I get to the end of a roll.

Russell, you're not so far from my childhood home in Lochee, Dundee, Angus. My nursery-school teacher used to take me to RAF Luchars in Fife, to see the English Electric Lightnings take off. :D
Quote:
Yep, I suppose there are items that can be treated in acid as you have identified. To be honest I have always been a user of 'the tool' (wire brush), flap wheels and surface prep wheels (heavy duty scourers) they are pretty good for rust removal with limited damage to surfaces.
The methods you describe, only remove surface rust and rust-scale. They will NOT remove rust from any small-diameter pits unless your abrade away the surrounding steel, which might leave your items very thin.

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Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


Last edited by naskeet on Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:53 pm 
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Oh ok. Good luck with it all then.

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1500 MG Midget
Absence of a Dolly or Tolly at the moment.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:14 pm 
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Colour film?
What century are we in? ;)

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Still searching for Sprint UUW 410M....If you know it or see it, I want it back! Now known to be in the Llandudno area....
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:42 pm 
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You youngsters and your flash 35mm cameras!

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1979 Dolomite 1500 SE.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:55 am 
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Most phones have a camera which can produce photos good enough to be used on this forum. It is best to use a hosting site such as Photobucket or Flickr.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the 1st Wednesday of every month at The Hollies Sports & Social Club, 12 Hough Lane, Bramley, Leeds, LS13 3NE
1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - The rolling restoration)
2008 Citroën C4 Grand Picasso 2.0 HDi Exclusive (MA08 WCL - the modern)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: do nothing, say nothing and be nothing." Aristotle


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:23 pm 
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Quote:
Colour film?
What century are we in? ;)
When using my late-1970s vintage, 35 mm format, Olympus OM2 SLR camera with interchangeable lenses (a graduation present to myself in 1978 :D ), I find colour-reversal film preferable to using monochrome-reversal film! One can still buy 35 mm colour-reversal film in my local branch of Sainsbury's but I have a stockpile I bought cheaply several years ago, which I store in the freezer.

http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Olympus_OM-1/2/3/4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_OM_system#OM-2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_OM_system#Lenses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_OM-2

http://www.olympus-global.com/en/corc/h ... index.html
Quote:
Most phones have a camera which can produce photos good enough to be used on this forum. It is best to use a hosting site such as Photobucket or Flickr.
My land-line telephone with circular dial (ten finger holes labelled 0 to 9) doesn't have a camera facility and the telephone flex won't stretch far enough to reach the driveway. :? :wink: Unlike some of you, I don't possess a mobile telephone of any description; principally because I've never needed one.

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Regards.

Nigel A. Skeet

Independent tutor of mathematics, physics, technology & engineering, for secondary, tertiary, further & higher education.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=308177758

Upgraded 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (Toledo / Dolomite HL / Sprint hybrid)

Onetime member + magazine editor & technical editor of Volkswagen Type 2 Owners' Club


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:33 pm 
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Quote:
sand paper, emery cloth, tungsten carbide “wet & dry” paper, wire wool, scotch-brite pads, wire brushes etc.
In my experience once you add up the cost of all of these consumables it ends up being cheaper (and easier) to take items to your local friendly sandblasters. Especially with things like suspension parts, subframe etc... I don't care what people say, you will also get a better finish than with a wire brush. Keep an eye on my restoration thread, I'm about to post some pictures of my finished air box which was sandblasted and had a crack welded up. The only filler on there is a small amount where the weld was and to cover up some pitting on the top and bottom faces.

All my suspension parts, subframe, engine plate, pedals, handbrake, air box, the bonnet and bootlid plus a whole host of other bits cost me £120 all in. Everything was then cleaned and acid etched when I got them back. I know my sandblasters are good, everyone saw my bonnet and bootlid at the restoration show! :lol:

The problem I found when I acid dipped things is that after a through washing in really hot water I was still getting a very high rate of flash rust as the part was drying. I have never had this problem with the sandblasted parts.

On the subject of cameras, I understand the nostalgia surrounding 35mm. I still use my Canon EOS 650 and Canonet28, although not to photograph car parts. For that I use my light table and the 7D! :wink: You can pick up something like a Canon IXUS 170 point and shoot from Currys for £120 which is an absolutely superb camera and uploading pictures onto the forum really is a doddle.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:49 pm 
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Why not buy a cheap digital camera so you can record your restoration AND share it with others on the forum? You could get one for a tenner off ebay!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:05 pm 
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Why not buy a cheap digital camera so you can record your restoration AND share it with others on the forum? You could get one for a tenner off ebay!
No no no no no no!! As an amateur photographer for the love of god pleeeeease don't buy a £10 eBay camera, the lenses are really rubbish!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:24 pm 
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I agree with James. The last digital camera I bought was a 10MP one for about £50 which I used until I had a phone with a decent camera. My current smartphone (Nokia Lumia 830) has a decent resolution (10MP) and good optics. My recent photos (within the last 6 months) have all been taken on this phone.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the 1st Wednesday of every month at The Hollies Sports & Social Club, 12 Hough Lane, Bramley, Leeds, LS13 3NE
1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - The rolling restoration)
2008 Citroën C4 Grand Picasso 2.0 HDi Exclusive (MA08 WCL - the modern)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: do nothing, say nothing and be nothing." Aristotle


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