The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:23 pm 
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James, I've still got this available (I'll check that it is still in Jo's garage over the road).
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I'm open to a sensible offer.

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Meetings take place on the 1st Wednesday of every month at The Hollies Sports & Social Club, 12 Hough Lane, Bramley, Leeds, LS13 3NE
1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - The rolling restoration)
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Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:53 am 
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Thanks, have PM'd you Dave, I may have a front section coming to Stoneleigh, will keep you updated.

Engine update....

Needs a rebore, no1 cylinder has a lip.

But thanks to Bruce I have a set of +20 Hepolite pistons, just dropped them off to Mick at Roe Engineering. It's going o be a couple of weeks though.

Head will go over on Monday for new guides, valves and seats plus probably a skim or face.

Still debating about balancing it. It's only a road engine, for £160 is it worth it? Hmmm?

In the meantime I have plenty of body work to be getting on with for the NEC.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:23 am 
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It's probably worth having things balanced as it will help to ensure the engine is smooth and reliable. I don't think you need to go down weighing the rods etc but crank, clutch and pulley perhaps. Not that they would have been balanced out of the factory of course.

On the other hand you could spend the £160 on something else.

What were the big and and main bearings like? Does the crank need a grind?

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1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:31 am 
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I'm kind of with you with the balancing Mark, I'll do the pistons and rods as well as I have the kit to do it and it doesn't take me long at all.

At the end of the day, yes I am thinking of the final value of the car (I am not ashamed to admit that) and a rebuilt engine fully balanced will add not only value but desirability. You all know I have very high standards and don't shortcut anything.

The crank shouldn't need a grind, just a polish. I'll let Mick and Leon have a look at it when I drop everything in on Monday.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Quote:
It's probably worth having things balanced as it will help to ensure the engine is smooth and reliable. I don't think you need to go down weighing the rods etc but crank, clutch and pulley perhaps. Not that they would have been balanced out of the factory of course.
To clarify, are you referring to the engines not being balanced at all, the individual parts only being balanced as required, or that the crank, clutch, and pulley were not balanced as an assembly at the factory?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Certainly the rods, pistons etc would not have been balanced in the factory and I doubt the crank was either, or at least not every one. I also doubt that the assembly of crank, clutch and pulley was balanced. All of this would take too long and the hope would have been that the manufacturing tolerances were sufficient to ensure a reasonable quality of build. You only really get into balancing when you're blueprinting an engine or you're selling a vehicle of sufficient worth to justify the extra time and cost.

BL were more concerned with getting cars out the factory gates rather than ensuring very car was as good as it could be.

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1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
2009 Mazda MX5 2.0 Sport
2015 BMW 118d Sport


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Certainly the rods, pistons etc would not have been balanced in the factory and I doubt the crank was either, or at least not every one. I also doubt that the assembly of crank, clutch and pulley was balanced. All of this would take too long and the hope would have been that the manufacturing tolerances were sufficient to ensure a reasonable quality of build. You only really get into balancing when you're blueprinting an engine or you're selling a vehicle of sufficient worth to justify the extra time and cost.

BL were more concerned with getting cars out the factory gates rather than ensuring very car was as good as it could be

I do not think this is strictly correct, I know the build quality may not have been up to modern standards / tolerances, or those of a race engine of the time, but the larger rotating masses in a car (crank / prop-shaft etc) would need to be checked and balanced if required, as even in the 70's the drivers would not expect to be driving a car with more shake, rattle and roll than a knackered washing machine, especially as triumph was targeting the more upmarket end of the medium car market. The smaller items such as the pistons, due to the greater degree of machining would have experienced less variation, and as such probably not be checked on a production engine.

Certainly when I rebuilt my 1850 engine last year (the car is a January 1975 build) I found the crank had (to at least some degree) been balanced as evidenced by the balancing marks on the crank webs by number 1 and 5 main bearing caps.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:48 pm 
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I'll make a decision on the balancing over the weekend.

In the meantime I have been cracking on with the welding.

A small hole escalated into something bigger and I had to do an inner and outer wheelarch repair, that's now done and should last the life of the car. I'll get some wax behind it when I have finished all the welding.

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I have also repaired the holes in the lower inner wheelarch by the sill. The jacking point was fine so I caught this just in time. The red oxide is just to protect the new metal before paint, the weather isn't exactly painting friendly at the moment!

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I also found a small hole in the corner of the boot floor. It's the same both sides I fixed it and forgot to take a photo, will do one when I tackle the other side tomorrow.

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Ignoring the front end that's the welding on the passenger side done, everything just needs seam sealing but I'll do that once I have done the other side. The drivers side shouldn't be as bad but you never know! :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:18 pm 
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It would be stupid not to balance and roughly check the rods first. You can have 30 grammes difference in rods in one engine. You can't match that but have to replace by one of about the same weight.

When you hear an engine running and think by yourself that one runs nice, that are the ones put together with more care and balanced rotating parts.

Jeroen.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:39 pm 
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I agree, there is also that 'could have been' factor as well. I'll always be wondering if the engine would have been better if it were properly balanced. Plus I feel like I'm doing a proper job by getting it balanced.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Quote:

Still debating about balancing it. It's only a road engine, for £160 is it worth it? Hmmm?
Hi James, When I did the Wife's MGB about 8 years ago I asked Oselli to do a full bottom end balance in addition to rebore, crank grind etc; etc. The results were amazing . The engine was just so smooth. You have to supply all the bottom end, crank pulley, flywheel, clutch etc; etc; but I would definitely do the same again on any engine I had rebored !
Highly recommended here !
Tony.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:25 pm 
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I won't build an engine for one of my own cars without balancing it, most of my customers are very cost conscious (read "tight") so rarely opt for it. But, like you, I have that nagging voice that says "you could have done this better, but instead you saved a few quid" Since I like to do a job once and never again, balancing or blueprinting is a no brainer for me. Not only does it run better and use more of it's potential, it will last longer and accept more abuse too! that's what I call win/win!

Steve

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:31 am 
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If I ever needed an excuse to get the rod balancer out again! :lol:

Right, it's being done! Had to order a clutch though, everything will get dropped off on Monday.

The only thing I am worried about is time. I need the engine and head back by w/c 12th March so I can build it. I may have to send some beer over or offer to lend a hand at the weekends! :lol: :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Today's jobs were to finish the welding on the drivers side of the car so I can concentrate on the front end over half term. My in-laws are here for another couple of weeks so I tought I would take advantage of them looking after the kids.

First, tackle the bulkhead crack. I haven't seen any how to's on this so this may be useful for people.

It helps if you remove the parcel shelf for access, you obviously need to remove the throttle pedal and it does help a great deal if you remove the bulkhead sound deadening.

From inside the car you can see the area that fatigues and cracks, the club do a plate to reinforce the area, however you still need to repair it first.

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Looking from inside the engine bay its more obvious.

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I cleaned up the area to be welded and got the cracked panel to sit flush.

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The metal is quite thin so I have carefully tack welded the crack, you can do it from inside the car but for me access was better outside.

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You can see from the other side of the panel I have good penetration on the weld, so once ground back this will be as strong as it ever was.

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The strengthing plate (which I have but cant find) clamps on to the panel so you will need to grind back the welds so that they are flush, Mahesh has a picture of one on his thread.

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One repair done, just needs some paint.

The small hole behind the lower front wing kind of expanded! :lol:

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I wasn't surprised, it was the same on RUK, sorry Binny! Which is good as I knew exactly how to repair it.

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I repaired the inner panel, jacking point and outer panels, no more rust and they all have nice fresh steel.

To get at everything I cut off the lower part of the front wing, the cut is along the sill trim line so won't be seen when it all goes back together.

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I double checked the other side just in case and it was fine.

The drivers side front and rear doors have some pinholes in the skin that have been filled, probably when it was resprayed back in the '70s. I will repair them, it's an easy job to re-skin the lower sections as the frames are good. Not now though as they are not MOT critical, I'll do it when the weather is warmer before the car is painted.

I checked the rear wheel arch for any holes and repaired the small section of boot floor so all that is left to do is to tackle the front next week.

I had a poke around and found more filler in the wings, drivers side this time, luckily I have a drivers wing that I can cut up so I'll use that. The valence shouldn't be difficult as I have done it before all I need is a passenger wing! :D

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:01 pm 
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When looking at the photos I noticed some cracking around the lower bolt hole, I'll repair this next week. It looks like I'll have to do it from inside the car to get good access.

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