The TOAD An 1850 Auto 1974 Early ? or not

[Dolly74]

Help have i bought a pup

I bought the toad a year ago from ebay described as a good condition dolly 28K on the clock no T & T but needed some tlc.

So i bought it £345 and drove the 150 miles to moreton in masrsh to collect it. When i got there it looked okay and was reasonable condition bodywise besides the rust on the front of the bonnet, all the right bits to confirm a 1974 i.e number plate lamp, wing mirrors and interior were all as they should be.

It started okay really sweet engine however the carbs were leaning fwd because the mounts had perished badly as described and they did affect the engine if they were moved i.e. drawing air through the cracks. So i drove it fwd on to the trailer and home, i'd come this far it was worth the price in bits alone.

However when i got home all was not well, changed the mounts, serviced the car, but still it would not run under load, starts first time and sounds great but if you hold the revs at 3K there is a misfire or something, see my thread "not enough petrol OOP's where's it going"

Add to this the auto selection is not right there seems to be no park OR when in park it selects reverse and drives it self down the drive, i have chased it several times! everything else is just fettling.

So after reading jonners reply re: carbs and some more late night reading i went in search of an engine number this morning and there isn't one. Not one between ex ports 3 & 4 for early or on the head between the carbs for late cars

All i have is the chassis number WF44584DLA confirmed on a scruffy vin tag and the following numbers cast on the head exhaust side V3259 LM25WP AND 88312141

Sorry for the long thread but facts are better Help!

Any thoughts on how this can be? could this be a TR7 engine? is it an early car? or not it does not add up now and the previous chap well he told some whoppers. So it looks like a summer driving a BMW at the mo

[DoloWIGHTY]

Engine number is not where it's officially suppose to be This might help you find it.

Engine number is here:



Just below the carb springs bracket:




Very faint, probably need to a wire brush, mirror and a inspection lamp - and a third hand.

[JPB]

Early? Is this the Emerald green one that was on eBay last year, maybe the year before? (The one I'm thinking about came with a very rare, grey interior).

My '72 (also an automatic, though one that does as it's told) has no visible engine number. Anywhere. Yet it's clearly the correct engine so as far as that goes, I wouldn't worry too much as long as it makes no nasty noises, doesn't smoke and loses no coolant.
The only thing that made me wonder whether this was "early" was the fact that it's on SU carbs, but a quick glance at the various brochures suggests that they came along for the '74 model year, so anything after the end of 'M' suffices, around August '74 onwards, but if it's the car with that grey interior that I can still "see" when I remember its eBay description (that one had been fitted with a vinyl roof, ISTR...), then it certainly appeared genuinely of the period and not that all too common eBay phenomenon; the late HL disguised as an early car (for devious purposes, there are of course later shells which carry earlier IDs for perfectly valid reasons).

it was worth the price in bits alone.

Well that suggests that no, you haven't bought a pup. It's always a shame to break a solid car and BW65s are pretty tough transmissions so possibly, the car sneaking away when it's meant to be in P is down to adjustment of the selector cable? Either that, or it's got some Peugeot DNA.

How about putting up some pictures and, if it's not a pukka '74, someone will be sure to come straight out and say so.

Edited:
It might well be that there is an engine number when you do as Alan suggests and take a wire brush to it, but all I'm saying is that there are definitely engines out there with no number anywhere in sight, this needn't be something to worry about.

[Jon Tilson]

I have 20000 or thereabouts built at end of 72 so 44000 odd 2 years later isnt out of the question.

The SU's came quite early as JPB says and coincide with peripheral vision instruments....the less attractive dials.

You can set the auto selection up...its just a matter of adjustment.

Higher rev misfire will be an ignition sort out. New plugs points and leads and if it persists then change leads coil and cap and rotor arm with known working ones...you have 2 dollies dont you? Do it one thing at a time and be patient. Dont expect to get it right first time...it took me 2 weeks to diagnose a 2nd duff coil a while ago!..

350 quid for a car like that is a bargain...your toad will soon become a handome prince of a car given enough love.

Jonners

[Dolly74]

Hi Jonners

Yeh done all that, new cap, points and rotor arm, new plugs and leads, swaped the coil for a known good one, thought about taking a dizzy from one of the sprints and trying that but i would rather keep the original as there seems nothing wrong with it.

I even check that none of the leads were chaffed and shorting

Found the timing (static) set at 4 degrees, set that to 11 now starts first time.

The engine seems to clear it's through and rev cleanner when the choke is pulled out which lead me to look at the fuel i.e. pump and carbs

i think like you said needle jets and float chamber valves are a start because of the obvoius carb issues

[Dolly74]

yes this is the dark green 1850 with the grey interior and vinal roof, it is a Late 74.

I would not break it now it was just a thought at the time because if it turned out to be a basket case the car was worth the sum of it's parts.

Looking at the surviving numbers i want to get it back on the road but it has turned in to a restoration jobby now instaed of a daily driver.

How do i post pictures on to this page??

Clive

[Toledo Man]

Jonners is bang on the money. The selector cable is easy enough to adjust. I had to do it when I first bought Brown and it had to be done again when I swapped the autobox.

I need to find Brown's engine number so I'll follow your advice Alan. Brown's V5C has an engine number of WF80650HEA (surely, that can't be right for a '72 Dolly) so it would be interesting to see what engine number I find the next time I'm under Brown's bonnet.

From what you've told us, it sounds like your ignition is in good order (beware of dodgy brand new rotor arms!) so the next thing is to move on to the fuel system. Replacing the carb mounts and checking the inlet manifold gasket would be the best place to start.

I hope this helps.

[JPB]

yes this is the dark green 1850 with the grey interior and vinal roof, it is a Late 74......

Glad that found a good home then. I was one of the other bidders for it when it was listed previously and had it looked at by a pal of mine who lives down there. He didn't find anything that would have put me off, in fact the only thing I found worrying at the time was the rust coming through the bonnet skin but bonnets aren't hard to find though you've more chance of scooping the lottery than finding one in Emerald.
Paints-R-us do cellulose in aerosols - to the original colour code from the commission plate - that works well and, if the ones they made for my Sienna car are anything to go by, are a great match so I'd be looking for a red bonnet to match the primer and giving that a couple of coats of Emerald from cans that have been stood in hot water before use.
That grey interior is reason enough to persevere with this car, IMHO, since only the orange ones are less common.

Good luck with it.

[sprint95m]

i went in search of an engine number this morning and there isn't one. Not one between ex ports 3 & 4 for early or on the head between the carbs for late cars

Just to back up what Alan (Stan Part) said earlier......
The engine number is on the block below the inlet manifold. It will be extremely difficult to find .
(There are quite a few errors/changes between reality and what the literature states.)


Given that your car is 37 years old it is unlikely to be completely as it left the factory.



By the way, I tried a Sprint distributor on an 1850 and found it to be worthwhile.
You can use a Dolomite 1500HL cap and rotor arm.
Please note that much of what are passed of today as ignition components are just rubbish.

[Jon Tilson]

Sure I have an emerald bonnet down in Dunkeswell...missing a hinge IIRC.

It was on HOH for a while...

Jonners

[Dolly74]

How rare is a grey interior then? I was thinking of putting a black interior in the toad as it already has a black carpet, and i was going to swap the door panels for a black set from a 1980 1300 they have the vinal all the way to the top and change the head lining for a black one i had made some time ago.

I even toyed with the idea of swapping the front seats for a pair of early astra gte recaros or a set of scheel deep sports seat from an Alpina B9 and i already have sprint alloys and bib spoiler tucked away.

Don't get me wrong i am a purist where it counts but i do like a bit of subtle retro styling, you would only have needed to see my 2002 touring and series 1 XJ6, i went to great pains to keep them original even down to the tyres.

If this car is a rare model then it would be worth recosidering my plans.

[JPB]

I had a 2000 Touring! (Note that I put "2000" and not "2002", the car was an early 1972 example and BMW for some reason held back the '02' part of the name for the hatch until later) It was stored in a "secure" lockup in Bracknell back when I was working down that end of the country for a while and one night it burnt to a crisp when some daft child decided to set fire to the whole row of buildings.

But I digress. That green car of yours is the only one I've ever seen on eBay with the grey trim, even back in the late '80s when it wasn't unusual to have people bringing their Dolomites to work for service and repair I can't recall having seen more than maybe four or five. I've seen more cars with the "New Tan" trim (orange, by any other name, I think they invented it by accident when someone spilt a whole bottle of bleach on a chestnut seat. ) than I have ones with the grey.

Someone will doubtless be along soon to tell us how many with grey trim are known to survive, but Emerald's a fairly uncommon body colour and the two came only with each other if I'm reading the chart in my parts book correctly.

[VYO 372M]

How rare is a grey interior then?

Very rare, personally I cannot ever recall seeing one in the flesh so to speak.

Steve

[Dolly74]

Right i think i have done it if not this is a right potch and there must be an easier way

YEEEH! Look at that then Dai yawn woooooho!

[JPB]

Oh yes. Still looks much as it did when I last saw it listed on the bay of E. The badges are on the opposite sides of the boot lid compared to where they should be, but this is just me saying it before anyone else does.

I'm trying to find the thread from last year in which the car was talked about.

Yep, here it be!

....But is it Emerald, or Mallard? Hard to tell as both look fairly dark in low light.