Hoofing out a Sprint gearbox

[Galileo]

Drove down to my nearest Triumph specialist and asked about getting my 'spare' gearbox and overdrive reconditioned and swapped out with my non overdrive box, got quotes of £1000 for the recon, and 10 hours at £58 plus the VAT for the swap out. Now having done a fair few gearbox swaps, front and rear wheel drive, that seemed a very long time to swap one out to me so I thanked them for their time.

My garage is just a patch of windswept tarmac, but as I'm no stranger to gearbox outs in inclement conditions, albeit as a much younger man, I thought sod them, I'll do the work myself looks more like 6 hours with a tea break or two. I've done a lot of forum research on this, and there are a lot of posts but no real definitive answers so thought it worth asking.

1. Can the box be removed from underneath the car? Not had a RWD that I couldn't do it with before when up on ramps and axle stands, but everyone talks about removing it from within the car, and then with quite a degree of difficulty and floor mangling to boot.
2. Will it really take 10 hours, even without the benefits of a 4 poster and the knowledge of an expert?
3. The gearbox is an unknown quantity, sat in a barn for who knows how long, and allegedly taken out of a low mileage car that rotted. What are the common wear points, and as someone who has admittedly never sprung a box, is this something an ameteur should even entertain doing?

Feelings will not be hurt if you tut and post a link to a forum post I've missed.

[Jon Tilson]

I think 10 hours is a bit much for a box swap myself. I can do it in a day on my own, either way.
You can do it from inside or from underneath or you can swing engine and box together. Each has advantages.

Robert in NZ drops the whole front subframe engine and box together, but is well set up to do it and can probably achieve a box swap in about 4 hours...

If you have a crane, take it out with the engine. If you have other things to do inside, take it out from inside. Its a faff getting
it past the exhaust and tunnel too. If you take it out from underneath, its quite heavy, but not the world's heaviest box.
I could "bench press" them in when I was young, but wouldn't do it now... You need to drop the two rear subframe bolts for it to
clear.

There is lots to be said for doing it with a crane in terms of what you can do with the engine out, like change rack mountings, sort out the intermediate shaft and generally tidy up....and most importantly sort out the manifold to downpipe flange joint so it
comes apart in future. They really are awful to do with the engine in place.

As to a box rebuild, yes you can do one on your own but its quite a lot of work. The bits cost around 300 quid for the whole lot
but it depends on how bad or how mental you want to go with all the bushes and bearings and synchro cones and forks. You can often get away in a Sprint box with just 2 synchro cones and the 3 main shaft bearings and the layshaft bearings.
The worst bit is getting the mainshaft bearing off. The last 2 I've done have been mares and resulted in some serious thumping with large hammers....I'm sure it was easier when the Churchill pullers were available.

Go for it and I'm sure we can get you through...but its not summer now so do you have a nice place to do it?

Jonners

[Robert 352]

Jonners - you are setting me up here!

I have just come in for some lunch for I am in the middle of doing what Galileo is contemplating doing. I have started to drop the engine and gearbox out of the bottom of my Sprint this mornings so that I can replace the front crankshaft oil seal.

Will it take me four hours, from whoa to go? Not today!!

I am getting very slow in my old age. Yes I suppose if I could be bothered it could be that for it generally takes about 45 minutes to drop the complete sub-frame assembly out on which is sitting the motor and gearbox. But today? Well by the time I stop to water the plants in the garden, sniff the flowers, have a cup of tea, get distracted on this forum, answer the odd e-mail, have some lunch. Well it might be late afternoon.......!

All I have done is really tried to copy the technique that will have been used on the assembly line, where in order to achieve daily or shift targets they would have swapped sub-frame assemblies on those cars where there were mechanical issues.

I would suggest to Galileo that if he contemplates leaving the engine in, then the one plus these cars have is that once that tunnel cover is removed the access around the gearbox and clutch housing is not too bad. One hell of a lot better than some cars I have battled with over the years.

That manifold to downpipe flange joint. Drill out the pop rivets, from the passenger side of the bulkhead that hold that little heatshield on that prevents the downpipe sliding off the manifold studs. And bolt it back on later rather than pop rivet it. I, of course, do not touch that joint for the manifold and downpipe come out attached to the gearbox and it is so easy to remove when the whole sub-frame assembly is out in the open.

I removed the whole assembly from another 1850 recently and found that I had to battle with one of the sub-frame bolts which I finished up having to drill out for it had seized somewhere. So I would say, only on a good day might I be able to achieve the four hour target. It certainly took me a great deal longer to remove it on that car on that day. That car is now back on its wheels, minus the engine.

If Galileo can find a technique that works for him without too much hassle then I would pop the second hand gearbox in and run it.

However in reading that Galileo is going to do it on a patch of windswept tarmac - oh dear! If you care to bring your car round here I will do it for you - under cover and out of the weather. It will cost you a beer or two when we finish. Bring Jonners along with you and he can criticize and tell stories as we work........

Robert

[Carledo]

I know reconning boxes is expensive these days, having seen Mike Papworth selling the essentially identical TR6 box and O/D at a show recently for £1500 exchange, I'm not too surprised at a grand to do yours up. However, my inclination would be to take the top off, have a look inside first and if it looked ok, clean out the O/D filters, fill it with some nice fresh GL4 and give it a go!
10 hours is a bit steep just for a swap but we are talking about an O/D conversion here which adds a little time to the job and I would be inclined to fork out for a new O/D wiring loom too.
I will do it from inside the car and charge you 8 hours @ £25 no vat, how about that? You will need to get the car and gearbox over here though!

Steve

[Toledo Man]

At the 2007 Restoration Show at Stoneleigh, Andy P's 1500SE had the overdrive conversion done and that was all done and dusted on the day (we were the last to leave). I can't really add to what has been said. Each method has it's own advantages. If you weren't so far away I would've given you a hand.

[xvivalve]

Would your nearest Triumph specialist be Jigsaw by any chance?

[Galileo]

I feel like I'm telling tales, but it's Robsport, do they frequent these forums? Don't wish to upset them! I can see why you said Jigsaw seen as Corby is quite near to Huntingdon.

Up until last year I had a very nice not quite a double garage, rented it for £20 a month (I had to insist on that) for 9 years from a very nice old lady well into her 70s who lived behind me. Her husband had gone on a business trip 20 years ago and never came back home, keeled over at the bar she said, quite a sad tale, but it meant the garage had been as he had left it. Unfortunately for me though, last year she decided it was time to downsize and sell the house, a shame for all concerned really, she used to wander into the garage on occasions with a glass of white wine in one hand and a fag in the other and tell me funny stories, I quite miss that!

So the point of that little wander down memory lane is that I now have no covered space, just a large patch of tarmac, which at least is private and off road. Having no garage meant that I had to get rid of the engine crane, so I don't have that anymore either. This might be something, as Jonners points out indirectly, that is a summer thing to do!

I can see all of your points on taking engine and gearbox out as a whole, the engine bay could do with some of the surface rust dealing with and a general paintwork tidy up, and it's the ideal opportunity to do all of the other common jobs at the front end too. Hmm, lot's of food for thought here, and it's all been very useful because it's forced me to stop and have a think about what I am trying to achieve here and not be too hasty with the overdrive goal. Must admit that I was planning on laying the car up anyway come the first showing of salt on the road, mainly because that's not going to help keep the rust at bay, and I don't trust other people not to slide into me. Not quite like my Fourtrak, if you want to hit me fine feel free, you'll come off a lot worse!

Cheers for taking the time to reply, and I must admit to being rather taken aback by all of your offers of help, this is more than a little above and beyond the call of duty guys, there must just be something about Dolomites that brings out the best in people?!

Raf.

Edited: Because I thought I'd sign off properly.

[xvivalve]

I reckon Mike Papworth in Coventry would halve the cost of reconditioning the 'box, or even do you an exchange item. As has been said before, taking off the cover and giving it a visual will tell you much, as will removing the magnetic sump plug to see what swarf has attached to it, then drain the oil to see how 'brassy' it has gone.

The problem with some 'specialists', but by no means all, is they just farm the work out to others, taking a commission for doing what you could do yourself with the third party direct.

[Galileo]

I reckon Mike Papworth in Coventry would halve the cost of reconditioning the 'box, or even do you an exchange item. As has been said before, taking off the cover and giving it a visual will tell you much, as will removing the magnetic sump plug to see what swarf has attached to it, then drain the oil to see how 'brassy' it has gone.

The problem with some 'specialists', but by no means all, is they just farm the work out to others, taking a commission for doing what you could do yourself with the third party direct.

And I see that they are £830 from Rimmer reconditioned, though what has and more importantly not been attended to is not said. Thanks for the tip, I shall go and investigate this weekend and see if I can guess at what condition it's in visually. Must admit, seems that they can be hard to do from what Jonners has said and what I have read elsewhere, might be something best left to an expert for a fit and forget, so cheers for the Mike Papworth lead.

Raf.

[PaulB]

Why not try James Paddock. They will recondition a Stag box for £265+VAT. Sprint is so similar, the price will probably be the same.

Much better than giving Rimmer an arm and leg.

But you would have to find someone to fit it or DIY

Regards, Paul

[Jon Tilson]

I dont see how they can do it for that even at slave labour rates.

Jonners

[mahony]

Check further down , there only listing stag boxes but it cannot be that much more/less for a dolly box

http://www.jamespaddock.co.uk/parts.asp ... ehicleId=1

[xvivalve]

I dont see how they can do it for that even at slave labour rates.

Jonners

North-west prices as opposed to south east prices?

[Galileo]

The Stag, 2x00 and TR6 gearboxes are apparently all the same from 1973, the differences being the first motion shaft length and first gear ratio. I can't think for the life of me where I read that though to quote a source.

Edit: Found a source, though not the one I read originally http://www.stag.org.uk/technical/page0105.htm

I dont see how they can do it for that even at slave labour rates.

Jonners

North-west prices as opposed to south east prices?

Even so, I'm with Jonners on the James Paddock pricing, no indication of what has been done to recondition the gearboxes and whilst I love a bargain, that seems suspiciously cheap when you look at just some of the parts cost, £200+ for a basic overhaul kit alone. If I was to clean up a box and change the oil seals, would that be reconditioned?!

[PaulB]

Why not give James Paddock a try. It mystifies me sometimes that people complain about high prices and continue to shop with the high price suppliers.