The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

If you just look at the pics, the n/s looks more like 30-40mm higher than the o/s, which we know is not correct!

As I and others have said before, measurements taken from the floor and with wheels hanging are not very productive and can be misleading.

Just a thought, since you don't have spare springs handy to try, do you have anyone local-ish who has a hydraulic press with a pressure guage on it? this would let you compare the poundage rate between the 2 springs. Ignoring the slight difference in free length which is probably not critical, compress both springs (separately) by a measured 2" and read off the poundage of pressure needed to do this. If it differs wildly, you have found the problem, if it doesn't, you have at least eliminated another variable.

Steve

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'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
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Thanks all. Responses :

I agree a few mm isn’t going to make any difference. The issue is the 2cm+ difference required in the spring seats.

I disagree about measuring from the floor. I realise that all that text was too hard for some people to read but the important thing about these measurements is the relative heights.

I know the floor is level. Well actually I know it’s flat, I’m pretty certain its also level.

I’ve taken measurements across different points on the sub frame and they are consistently higher on the NS by approx. 5mm. I have assumed and believe it is reasonable to assume that the NS stand is 5mm higher.

What we then have is the lip of the front wing being 2cm higher on the NS than the OS. Correct me if I’m wrong but all this stuff is bolted together. If the lower part is deemed to be tilted by 5mm but the top part is out by 20mm then its reasonable to deduce that the top part is adding 15mm of displacement.

Since the car is levelled (using the seat adj) by making the two front wings sit the same height above the tyres ie so that it looks and sits right, it follows that one side has to be more jacked up on the spring seat as things stand.

Jeroen – I will swap over the entire shock assys from one side to the other to see what happens and report back. I accept your point but only to a certain extent. I am still sceptical that the entire structure might be twisted in some way that causes these problems but isn’t visible by external inspection ie the front of the car looks ok.

I realise that the turret heights are very close which is great..

What I have an issue with is how the front wing edges can be 20mm higher on one side when we believe we are only seeing an offset of 5mm in the underlying suspension. Likewise the turrets heights are just a few mm out but the outer wing edges - that are basically welded to the turrets - are out by 20mm.

I also have an issue with the NS wheel centre sitting 20mm higher. What is the explanation for that? Another thing is that it can’t be pushed any lower and therefore I dispute that it’s irrelevant or having no effect on the overall problem. I do realise that when on the car the entire wishbone assy will sit higher and so this concern shouldn't matter but how can it be like that? And it seems no coincidence that its out of place by the same amount the wing lip is out by.

Toledo Man – thanks for strut top plate definition. They do have sealant/mastic on them so that when fitted this is squished into the spaces between the three spacers. It’s always been like this for whatever reason since before I got it. How does everybody else fit these – shiny clean with just the spacers or with some sort of “bluetac / blacktac” to fill the space and maybe absorb vibration etc?

So, they do look manky but are ok in that respect. Although one needs replacing due to a single crossed thread.

Carledo – it may look like 30-40mm but the measured distance to the wing lip edges is 20mm different. I suppose its possible one wing is physically deeper than the other !... but I doubt it. Agree re spring test. Easiest solution is to do the swapover first and see whether that sheds any light.

I'll come back on that in the next few days

Quick observation, if the rear of the car is sat on its wheels, can you measure the ride height there first? Just wondering if the rears are adjusted different the fronts can suffer too.

Tony

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Membership 2014047

I'll check the rears when its back on the floor but fairly certain all is good there with heights adjusted the same and spring seat adjusters at same level. Will report back on that also.

Thks

I meant to also comment on that subframe measurement check idea per the repair manual.

I do have the repair manual. I have an engineering background but find the first drawing in 76.10.04 hard to decipher. Clealry the bottom image is an elevation of the subframe. The top one looks like a plan view of one side but with unrecognisable 3D elements added to the lower edge.

I wouldn't know how to go about taking those measurements particularly with the subframe on the car.

rgds

The suspension travel hanging loose is only limited by the front stabiliser. When you would disconnect that one both suspension arms left and right would drop down. Maybe a twisted stabiliser would cause the uneveness.

Jeroen

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I would think a bent anti roll bar would equalise both sides anyway

Tony

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Membership 2014047

Maybe. I had considered this. I might disconnect the AR bar and see how everything sits.

It might make me feel slightly better but remember that even if both axle centres sit at the same height we still have one wing edge 15mm higher than the other.

I will swap the shock assys over and we can see whether that makes a difference when the car is on the floor. Given the turret heights are the same you would think it might but my bet is that it doesn't.

Despite the front of the car looking fine externally - so I'm totally ignoring the evidence in front of my eyes - I suspect that we will find the shock swap makes no difference and that the need to jack up the OS is caused by a need to fake the same ride height given that the NS wing is somehow physically 15mm higher.

Of course I really hope I'm wrong. If I'm right the solution I'm thinking of is an extra bush in the top of the shock mount. Ideally it would be extra spacers between shock top plate and turret but there's not enough thread on the three top plate bolts.

m

I think not with that stupid dolomite construction.

Jeroen

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I swapped the shock assys today. Both spring seat heights set the same and lower wishbone and lower shock bolts left loose.

After landing back on its tyres it looks better than before. Nothing has settled and the wheels are still in post-jacked state but difference in front wing heights was 6-8mm. I'll check properly when the car has been moved a bit and the wheels are in their normal positions.

Right now the car has the back jacked up to take a look at the rear axle breather; separate thread.

I've let the car sit overnight with the rear jacked up, now returned to all 4 on the ground and vehicle moved back and forwards a bit to get things to sit straight. This was only a to and fro process for two reasons :
- primarily because a lot of the suspension isn't tightened up
- ... but also because it has now decided not to start. Bless it. It's like arguing with a politician, you can never win.

I'm not sure about the reluctance to start. It always starts no matter how long its been left and this time it's only been a week or so. I may have flooded it . Whatever.

The issue for here is that with the shock assys swapped over and things now settled into place a bit it remains the case that the NS is probably 5-6mm higher than the OS. This is with both spring seats set the same. It appears that the previous 2cm difference has reduced. BUT we need to be careful there because a 6mm change in ride height (as measured from wheel centre to wheel arch) is, in my experience, going to require more than 6mm movement in the spring seat height.

Also the slightly longer spring is now on the OS which would/might be helping to reduce any difference.

That adjustment is a test for later. I'll let report back. Both sides are actually low so how each side behaves as it is wound up remans to be seen.

Well its all back together with the new suspension top plate etc.

The car is more or less level at the front, maybe a couple of mil lower on the OS. Nevertheless the OS spring is wound up by another 10 mil so its still the case that one side needs a 1cm adjustment in the spring seat height to get the whole thing level.

It is what it is... done....had enough of thinking about it!