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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:05 pm 
Good evening to all. Finally joined an owner's forum after a lot of money spent at Rimmers and a year of ownership!

I have been having problems with my lightly modified 1976 Triumph Dolomite 1500. This is my first British classic car and also my first car to be so heavily altered from standard spec so bear with me.

When I bought the car it was solid body wise but in a generally poor state mechanically and obviously had not seen regular use in a long time. Regardless it was providing good service on my daily commute into London and managed a few very long cross country trips before a camping trip to Warwickshire finally killed the engine when it drank all of its oil on the motorway and started knocking alarmingly. Fast forward a few months and the engine was rebuilt to fast road spec by a very reputable shop and the car now has quite a few upgrades which I will list at the end of the post.

The problem I'm having is that the engine seems to be twisting very hard on launch and the starter bell on the gearbox is striking the transmission tunnel. The engine and gearbox mounts are about a year old as I had them changed just after I bought the car as they were visibly worn.

Just wondering if anyone could throw some light on the problems I'm having and if they're common to tuned 1500 engines

Engine mods;
-new fast road camshaft (I do not know the specs)
-head skimmed as far as possible
-head aggressively ported and polished
-top of block reworked to eliminate fire rings and use a flat HG
-dynamically lightened and balanced rotating assembly
-tufftrided valve train
-block resleeved and new pistons etc
-lightened and balanced flywheel

Other mods;
-polybush front ARB
-polybush steering rack (hard compound) to go with new rack
-very low on SPAX adjustable shocks and uprated springs from rimmers
-"stage 1" black diamond clutch


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:52 pm 
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I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but the quality of aftermarket bonded metal/rubber components for our cars is generally VERY poor, so "recently fitted new ones" does not equate to "must be still good"!

From your spec list, you have a pretty agressive motor there and a fierce ish clutch so torque reaction is going to take a toll, i'd look closely at your "new" mounts before looking elsewhere for the problem. I'm not too sure of a recommended source of 1500 mounts at this point in time as I suspect that most suppliers have only one manufacturer to choose from! Obviously your best bet would be some NOS ones if you can find them, or look at making something from Rally Design or similar suppliers fit. There has recently been a rash of bad Sprint gearbox mounts around, made with completely the wrong "shore" rating of rubber which makes the car horrible to drive! A member on here (Galileo) has devised a mod using a Volvo mount to get round this. This mod MAY be suitable for your 1500 if the car has overdrive fitted but won't if it's only a 4 speed.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:24 am 
Hi Steve!

Very much appreciate the swift reply. I did suspect the mounts, the NS engine mount seems to be sagging more than the OS even just from a cursory inspection. I have a 4 speed so that mod will be of limited use to me. And I promised myself I was done modifying this car...

How about stronger mounts? I'm loathe to polybush the engine because of the bad experiences I've heard of stiff mounted engines in road cars but is it that bad?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:34 am 
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Have a look at jag engine mounts.
http://www.sngbarratt.com/ProductDetail ... 525c1d41e4
those are OEM versions, hence more than repro versions that are sold elsewhere (and by that supplier)

The pair of mounting holes are almost identical to the dolly. And the single 1/2"unf insert in the middle lens itself to a simple fabricated bracket to attach to a engine.

I use these on the TR7 powered toledo (I made the mounts to the block too) and also on my zetec spitfire.
They are certainly used on some recent caterhams.

they are compliant enough to not cause issues, and seem to cope perfectly well with the zetec spit which produces 180ish BHP and did santa pod etc, so is worked hard. Been on 3 years of abuse no with no signs of any issues.


BTW an overdrive gearbox is almost essential with a 1500 engine. No matter what an engine builder says, they can not cope with high revs for any length of time. I have (or had) a selection of cranks etc that are testiment to that. And make sure you have an oil cooler and the best oil you can find!

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Clive Senior
Brighton


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 Post subject: Okay.......
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:28 am 
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Location: Caithness, Scotland
It sounds like you have fitted Dolomite 1850 engine mounts?
These are much softer than Dolomite 1500 mounts and, being the same dimensions,
are easily mixed up.
(There was a thread some years ago on here discussing this very subject.)




Ian.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:10 am 
Quote:
It sounds like you have fitted Dolomite 1850 engine mounts?
These are much softer than Dolomite 1500 mounts and, being the same dimensions,
are easily mixed up.
(There was a thread some years ago on here discussing this very subject.)




Ian.
This is entirely possible. The mounts I have fitted are https://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-158016

They are listed for 1300, 1500 and 1850
Quote:
Have a look at jag engine mounts.
http://www.sngbarratt.com/ProductDetail ... 525c1d41e4
those are OEM versions, hence more than repro versions that are sold elsewhere (and by that supplier)

The pair of mounting holes are almost identical to the dolly. And the single 1/2"unf insert in the middle lens itself to a simple fabricated bracket to attach to a engine.

I use these on the TR7 powered toledo (I made the mounts to the block too) and also on my zetec spitfire.
They are certainly used on some recent caterhams.

they are compliant enough to not cause issues, and seem to cope perfectly well with the zetec spit which produces 180ish BHP and did santa pod etc, so is worked hard. Been on 3 years of abuse no with no signs of any issues.


BTW an overdrive gearbox is almost essential with a 1500 engine. No matter what an engine builder says, they can not cope with high revs for any length of time. I have (or had) a selection of cranks etc that are testiment to that. And make sure you have an oil cooler and the best oil you can find!
This seems like a good shout. Would the adapter bracket be difficult to make? I am handy with tools but unfortunately I cannot weld. I could probably get it welded if required?

Also, the rimmers dolomite mounts I have installed at the moment are more expensive than the OEM Jag ones you linked!!

The OD unit is hugely expensive. What sort of speed would I have to maintain to be able to reliably do long motorway trips?

Thanks for all the help guys.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:07 pm 
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4500rpm is an absolute maximum I would say. So without overdrive about 70/80ish?? depending what diff ratio yours has fitted. I remember hooning along an "autobhan" sat at 100mph for an hour or so on the way to an autosolo, I doubt either helped the lifespan of that engine.

I ran my 1500 toledo with a 4.11 diff and overdrive. Worked well, but a 3.89 would have been better possibly.

Please do some serious oil research if you intend using the car as you seem to want! I found Millers 20/60CSS about the best, but there may be better. VR1 ran at a lower oil pressure. There are some nice fully synthetics out there for motorsport use, but none are cheap. Then again, with the cost of an engine at stake, £60 a year is a wise investment. Likewise an oil cooler (fiited with an oilstat so oil is not over cooled)

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Clive Senior
Brighton


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm
Posts: 1549
Quote:
Quote:
It sounds like you have fitted Dolomite 1850 engine mounts?
These are much softer than Dolomite 1500 mounts and, being the same dimensions,
are easily mixed up.
(There was a thread some years ago on here discussing this very subject.)




Ian.
This is entirely possible. The mounts I have fitted are https://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-158016

They are listed for 1300, 1500 and 1850
Quote:
Have a look at jag engine mounts.
http://www.sngbarratt.com/ProductDetail ... 525c1d41e4
those are OEM versions, hence more than repro versions that are sold elsewhere (and by that supplier)

The pair of mounting holes are almost identical to the dolly. And the single 1/2"unf insert in the middle lens itself to a simple fabricated bracket to attach to a engine.

I use these on the TR7 powered toledo (I made the mounts to the block too) and also on my zetec spitfire.
They are certainly used on some recent caterhams.

they are compliant enough to not cause issues, and seem to cope perfectly well with the zetec spit which produces 180ish BHP and did santa pod etc, so is worked hard. Been on 3 years of abuse no with no signs of any issues.


BTW an overdrive gearbox is almost essential with a 1500 engine. No matter what an engine builder says, they can not cope with high revs for any length of time. I have (or had) a selection of cranks etc that are testiment to that. And make sure you have an oil cooler and the best oil you can find!
This seems like a good shout. Would the adapter bracket be difficult to make? I am handy with tools but unfortunately I cannot weld. I could probably get it welded if required?

Also, the rimmers dolomite mounts I have installed at the moment are more expensive than the OEM Jag ones you linked!!

The OD unit is hugely expensive. What sort of speed would I have to maintain to be able to reliably do long motorway trips?

Thanks for all the help guys.
60 I would think to keep the engine revs low enough, if you have a HL spec you can use the rev counter. I didn't like to go above 3500 for long periods with mine, our local garage told us to treat that like the redline, to be safe. Overdrive makes the car allot more useful, you can cruise safely at 70 and it makes the car much more refined out of town.

The good news is the 1500 has a decent amount of low down torque, it feels almost like a diesel. With the right gearing it is a pretty nice road engine. Just not suitable for anything sporty, without modification.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Posts: 2473
Remounts.
A bit of angle iron plus a bit of plate may be enough, but probably require welding. If I have an old dolly mount I will see how they compare....

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Clive Senior
Brighton


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:47 pm 
More great detailed replies, thanks chaps.

Before the rebuild when my engine was not in fantastic nick, I did a 400 mile round trip on motorways. I got around the problem of over revving by driving at 45-50mph the entire way. Good for the car but bad for my sanity. Took a very long time.

Sporty isn't necessarily the goal. I would like to drag race it maybe once a year (on standard 155 tyres so as not to break anything too serious...) Largely my modifications have been for looks and cool points and I don't feel bad about it :P

Oil wise I am using Petronas HPX 20/50 as this was the only synthetic oil I could find in 20/50. I am open to advice if this is a bad move. Cost is not really an issue for oil (what is £60pa really)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7013
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Your 76 car should come with the earlier 3.89:1 diff, there is some advantage in swapping that out for the later 3.63 ratio which will give a non o/d car around 19mph/1000rpm in 4th gear (on stock tyres) It's cheaper and quicker to fit than overdrive!

I too consider the 1500 a bit weak in the crank department and would normally recommend 3500rpm as a safe cruising speed, Triumphs development engineers were always hampered by the accountants but the mods you have done should mean that it will be safe, (if a little noisy) at least to about 4500 for sustained work. But I too would recommend a decent oil cooler - and a guage so you can keep an eye on the pressure!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:45 pm
Posts: 11179
Location: Middlesex
And an unprated clutch too. Oh dear...poor thrusts.

Never ride the clutch in traffic....

You need the right mounts. Try Winns....

Also you could use a Sprint mounting bracket on the nearside sub frame point and some sort of modified steady bar? Mini one may be long enough.

Jonners

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Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:50 pm 
Update time boys.

Having got the vehicle up on the 4 poster at work (while dodging bits of fox), one of the engine mounts was sloping very slightly down from the body to the engine! I half remember that these mounts are supposed to slope up towards the engine so I flipped it round and I've not had any more issues on my admittedly sedate commute home. Drag racing this weekend and hoping to get a good couple of runs out of her so I'm thinking new oil filter, oil and a modified engine steady bar from a mini and I'll report back!

I have good used Metalastik engine mounts just in case the "new" mounts do turn out to be at fault.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Think you ought to invest in a rev limiter!
Are you at Santa Pod?? trouble with that sort of stuff is the red mist comes down :twisted:

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Clive Senior
Brighton


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:00 am 
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I want to see the time tickets! I'm thinking late 18s would be good and early 18s excellent!

I've got my 2 litre Vauxhall powered Toledo down from a mid 17s start to a PB of 16.015 @91.63 MPH clocked at the Retro Show/Triumphfest at Santa Pod this year.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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