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 Post subject: whole can of worms time
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:20 pm 
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I have an excellent 2001 Saab 2.0 turbo engine sat in my old car. I have an excellent Sprint with overdrive gearbox sat else where. Is it possible to blend the 2 together. Saab and Triumph did have a relationship at one time.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:24 pm 
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In a word, no. Your Saab engine bears little or no resemblance to a Dolly Slant 4.

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1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:11 pm 
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Later SAAB engines changed to follow the GM gearbox mount pattern sometime in the late 90s, so no. However, that does mean it would mate up nicely with something like a Vauxhall Omega box.

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Current fleet: Triumph Dolomite Sprint '75, Daihatsu Fourtrak, Honda CG125, Yamaha Fazer 600, Shetland 570

Disposal fleet: Golf GTi 16v MK3 Anniversary

Past fleet: Triumph 2000, Lancia Beta Coupe, BL Mini Clubman, Austin Metro, Vauxhall Cavalier MK1 & MK2, Renault 18 D, Rover 216 GSI, Honda Accord (most expensive car purchase, hated it on pickup from dealer, was made out of magnetic metal as only car I've ever been crashed into, 4 times), Golf GTi MK3 16v x 3


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:11 am 
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This is an interesting possibility, one I have considered myself as I also have a 9-3 Turbo motor lying around. Whilst it is true that the Saab motor mates to a GM box (Cavalier/Vectra hybrid) it does so via an adaptor plate, just like a Sprint does. Whether a Sprint adaptor plate would fit to a Saab block is something to be determined by experiment, but it wouldn't surprise me either way. Or, as Galileo mentioned, the Omega box WILL fit the Saab/GM adapted block and I can tell you from experience that that gearbox fits into a Dolomite body very happily and easily. It's also CONSIDERABLY stronger than the Sprint box as the same unit backs the 217bhp 3.2 Omega V6. The main problems will be making mounts and finding enough space for the turbo and some of the cooling system pipework.

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:21 am 
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I'd imagine there would be some serious suspension turret hacking about needed due to the turbo exhaust manifold?

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Current fleet: Triumph Dolomite Sprint '75, Daihatsu Fourtrak, Honda CG125, Yamaha Fazer 600, Shetland 570

Disposal fleet: Golf GTi 16v MK3 Anniversary

Past fleet: Triumph 2000, Lancia Beta Coupe, BL Mini Clubman, Austin Metro, Vauxhall Cavalier MK1 & MK2, Renault 18 D, Rover 216 GSI, Honda Accord (most expensive car purchase, hated it on pickup from dealer, was made out of magnetic metal as only car I've ever been crashed into, 4 times), Golf GTi MK3 16v x 3


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:20 am 
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As Galileo said. I too don't believe any Saab engine would fit in a Dolimite engine bay, maybe an early 99, but then thats an 1850 engine. The engine bay of the classic Saab 99 and 900 are so much wider and the GM Saabs are totally different being transverse units from Vectras /GM stuff.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:17 pm 
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It's not THAT complex, as the Saab motor no longer lays over at 45 degrees like the Saab/Dolomite Slant did and the turbo is pretty tight to the block. I abandoned the idea because I found a BETTER donor car in the MKIII/IV Astra Turbo 2 litre, which can be fitted with all the inline Carlton sump, plumbing and mounts, bolts directly to the Omega gearbox and throws out 220bhp in at least one factory variant. What more could you want? The idea has only gone onto the back burner (as an upgrade for the Carledo) because the donor car I had dibs on, I let slip through my fingers and the Sprint Auto project is consuming most of my spare time and money ATM!

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Sorry but I'm going to stick my nose in here.

You said you had an excellent Sprint, with values going the way they are why would you take out the engine and replace it?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Quote:
Sorry but I'm going to stick my nose in here.

You said you had an excellent Sprint, with values going the way they are why would you take out the engine and replace it?
They want the turbo.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:53 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Sorry but I'm going to stick my nose in here.

You said you had an excellent Sprint, with values going the way they are why would you take out the engine and replace it?
They want the turbo.
Aaaaah I see


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 Post subject: Okay folks...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Quote:
It's not THAT complex, as the Saab motor no longer lays over at 45 degrees like the Saab/Dolomite Slant did and the turbo is pretty tight to the block. I abandoned the idea because I found a BETTER donor car in the MKIII/IV Astra Turbo 2 litre, which can be fitted with all the inline Carlton sump, plumbing and mounts, bolts directly to the Omega gearbox and throws out 220bhp in at least one factory variant. What more could you want? The idea has only gone onto the back burner (as an upgrade for the Carledo) because the donor car I had dibs on, I let slip through my fingers and the Sprint Auto project is consuming most of my spare time and money ATM!

Steve
The GM based Saab engine is a straightforward replacement for the Vauxhall turbo.
It is common practise (or not uncommon in the UK at any rate?) to use the Saab engine in Astra turbos.

The Saab block is preferred because it is stronger, same for the other components too.
Alas Saab donors are no longer cheap as a consequence of so many being used this way.

In answer to your question, something that lasts.

You need to watch which Saab engine you go for, the later 9-3 aren't so good for this (not as strong) as the earlier version.
Last year I spoke at length to someone locally about they conversions he had done (/was doing), he uses a different ECU
if possible, favouring an Emerald unit.



Ian.

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 Post subject: Re: Okay folks...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Quote:
The GM based Saab engine is a straightforward replacement for the Vauxhall turbo.
It is common practise (or not uncommon in the UK at any rate?) to use the Saab engine in Astra turbos.

The Saab block is preferred because it is stronger, same for the other components too.
Alas Saab donors are no longer cheap as a consequence of so many being used this way.

In answer to your question, something that lasts.

You need to watch which Saab engine you go for, the later 9-3 aren't so good for this (not as strong) as the earlier version.
Last year I spoke at length to someone locally about they conversions he had done (/was doing), he uses a different ECU
if possible, favouring an Emerald unit.

Ian.
Being a big fan of the Vauxhall motor and the Cavalier in particular, I am quite familiar with the popularity of transplanting a Saab motor into a Vauxhall. The Cav swap is most popular since the 9-3 shares a floorpan with it, making it virtually a bolt in job. And I completely agree, the Saab motor is MUCH tougher than the Vauxhall, with over 400BHP obtainable without significant bottom end improvement. Logistically though, it only works with a swap into another FWD car, the Saab engine has no mount points suitable for use in a RWD application whereas the Vauxhall engine from the Astra Turbo uses what is basically a generic "Ecotec" block which, because of it's use in the Omega, has the facility to be mounted in the longitudinal manner needed for a Dolomite transplant. I was always one for the KISS principal! And TBH, whilst the possibilty of a reliable 400 horses is an intrigueing thought, in practice, it would probably mean a much stronger gearbox, axle, suspension, and, probably, a tougher shell too, not to mention that 400 in 760kg of Toledo would make an undriveable monster! Yes I kinow that MOST Saab turbo donors are "only" SE spec 150bhp (as is the one I have) but 205 is factory Aero spec easily obtainable by map and a different turbo and injectors and higher outputs are similarly easy to achieve, it'd be rude not to!
Also, since I have already converted the Carledo to accept a basically similar Vauxhall engine, the Astra Turbo would now be a more or less bolt in swap, needing only the loom, ECU and downpipe to be changed, a couple of parts swapped on from the "original" Carlton engine and the addition of an intercooler. 200 or so horses will, I think, be plenty! And since all those Ecotec turbos are being pulled out of Vauxhalls to make way for Saab units, they are cheap as chips! (The entire 2003 Astra Turbo convertible I missed out on was only £800)

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:59 am 
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very interesting. I have seen a few Saab motors from the hot aero 9-3 in kit cars, I have this engine from the 9-3 of 2001 vintage, still in the car sat here in the way with a slipping clutch. It does perform really well, so maybe I'll pass it on to the Vauxhall guys and reinvest the money in rebuilding a Sprint motor, but I think I may be opening the wallet wide.


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 Post subject: Re: Okay folks...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:52 pm 
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Location: Harrow Middlesex
Quote:
Quote:
The GM based Saab engine is a straightforward replacement for the Vauxhall turbo.
It is common practise (or not uncommon in the UK at any rate?) to use the Saab engine in Astra turbos.

The Saab block is preferred because it is stronger, same for the other components too.
Alas Saab donors are no longer cheap as a consequence of so many being used this way.

In answer to your question, something that lasts.

You need to watch which Saab engine you go for, the later 9-3 aren't so good for this (not as strong) as the earlier version.
Last year I spoke at length to someone locally about they conversions he had done (/was doing), he uses a different ECU
if possible, favouring an Emerald unit.

Ian.
Being a big fan of the Vauxhall motor and the Cavalier in particular, I am quite familiar with the popularity of transplanting a Saab motor into a Vauxhall. The Cav swap is most popular since the 9-3 shares a floorpan with it, making it virtually a bolt in job. And I completely agree, the Saab motor is MUCH tougher than the Vauxhall, with over 400BHP obtainable without significant bottom end improvement. Logistically though, it only works with a swap into another FWD car, the Saab engine has no mount points suitable for use in a RWD application whereas the Vauxhall engine from the Astra Turbo uses what is basically a generic "Ecotec" block which, because of it's use in the Omega, has the facility to be mounted in the longitudinal manner needed for a Dolomite transplant. I was always one for the KISS principal! And TBH, whilst the possibilty of a reliable 400 horses is an intrigueing thought, in practice, it would probably mean a much stronger gearbox, axle, suspension, and, probably, a tougher shell too, not to mention that 400 in 760kg of Toledo would make an undriveable monster! Yes I kinow that MOST Saab turbo donors are "only" SE spec 150bhp (as is the one I have) but 205 is factory Aero spec easily obtainable by map and a different turbo and injectors and higher outputs are similarly easy to achieve, it'd be rude not to!
Also, since I have already converted the Carledo to accept a basically similar Vauxhall engine, the Astra Turbo would now be a more or less bolt in swap, needing only the loom, ECU and downpipe to be changed, a couple of parts swapped on from the "original" Carlton engine and the addition of an intercooler. 200 or so horses will, I think, be plenty! And since all those Ecotec turbos are being pulled out of Vauxhalls to make way for Saab units, they are cheap as chips! (The entire 2003 Astra Turbo convertible I missed out on was only £800)

Steve
Steve

Whats the possibility off doing a cut and shut on the inlet manifold/plenum from the Saab to the Sprint,thought it may be a easier way of getting EFI made rather than make one from scratch

Dave


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:11 am 
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I don't think there's any advantage on the Saab manifold over any other sort as the Saab 16v head is a twin cam that bears no resemblence at all to the 1850 in it's ancestry.

A quick fix would be a Weber manifold with the Jenvey "fake Weber" throttle bodies plus an Emerald ECU. Not cheap though!

Home brew would still use the Weber manifold, but with a fabricated plenum that bolts on and a single throttle body of your choice.

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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