The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:24 am 
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Hi all
I am still using points and condenser
My mechanic (yes I'm lazy!) has tried a couple of times to install electronic ignition direct to coil without success.
After driving a couple of miles smoothly, the dolly starts running on two cylinders!!

Please can someone advise on what electronic ignition to use and maybe explain why this problem is occuring

Thanks Mick


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
What model of Dolomite are you running? The Sprint, with it's unique-to-model 44D4 distributor, seems to be allergic to any sort of EI except the most expensive, Lumenition Optronic or the even more pricey and complex to install 123 programmable distributor. Magnetronics seem to last a few weeks at best and if you are lucky enough to find a NOS Accuspark kit, you'll be even luckier if you can get it work at all! Accuspark appear to have withdrawn the Sprint kit BECAUSE it's failure rate was too high. Though I gather they are now offering an older style "points assisted" system with an external amplifier block, similar to the Piranha systems of the 70s with an Austin Ambassador style distributor cap and leads.

But the other models, 1850 and the OHV 1300s and 1500s, as well as 6 cylinder Triumphs, both kits and full distributors, and a single early Rover V8 in a Stag that required a semi-bespoke kit, I have successfully fitted Accuspark kits to several of each, with a (so far) zero failure rate. I get my Accuspark kits from SimonBBC who advertises widely on E-bay and elsewhere. I chose him to supply my first such kit several years ago, on the basis that his base of operations is farly near my home and I could go over and shove it down his throat if I had a problem! That problem has not materialized and I have stayed with him because his service and technical backup are exemplary. The 1850 kit is a bit of a PITA to fit, the distributor has to be removed and dismantled to do it, but that is down to the design of the distributor, not to any flaw in the kit! OHV kits, I can fit and set up in less than an hour.

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:21 pm 
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My own personal experience is that the in-distributor units are not technically as good as the units with external electronics.
2 reasons : The engine block is sitting at about 70 deg C so the distributor will be at this temp as well ( at least on the slant 4s).
Now on top of that the switching module will be dissipating power and will have a temperature somewhere above this. And the reliability of electronic items really does decrease with increase in temperature.
The remote large heatsink on the Lumenition devices can be mounted in a much cooler location.
Some of these in-distributor units rely on a magnet and a hall-effect detector which seem to be quite critical on setting distance.
I reckon the opto-electronic chopper solution is a much better idea even though the electronic emitter / detector are sitting in side the hot distributor.
I have 3 of these units in the classics here. Two Lumenition opto electronic chopper units one has been installed since 1980, and the other in the 1850 has been there for 5 years. The MGB has a variant of this with the Newtronic opto-electronic unit.
They just work.
HTH,
Tony.
P.S. I would be interested to acquire a misfiring unit for investigating here.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:52 pm
Posts: 124
Location: BC Canada
I run my Sprint with Pertronix it has been in my car 12yrs and no problems and have run in over 90 deg weather. Most of my BCTR club here in Canada run their Triumphs with Pertronix fits right in Distributor

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Denis Thompson TDC Member


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:28 am
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Location: Nanaimo Vancouver Island BC Canada
I have a Magnetronic that is over 5 years old with no problems.
The cap is an Ambassador .

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DOUG
1980 Dolomite Sprint lhd


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:36 pm 
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I had a magnetronic MTK007 + bespoke coil which lasted less than 500 miles. Went back to points and amplifier by Sparkrite and it's working just fine - for a fraction ( 1/8) of what the MTK007 + coil cost.

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1972 Spitfire MK IV
1972 Stag
1980 Sprint

1962 Land Rover Series 2a
1961 Land Rover Series 2a (under restoration)
1983 Land Rover Series 3

1995 Suzuki Samurai SJ413

1972 MGB GT (banished for being too tight to fit in it)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:37 am 
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Thank you all for your invaluable advice

I will be running these comments past my mechanic this week

Mick


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:57 am
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Fascinating the different experiences with differing units. I've run both my blue and race Sprints on Magnetronic with no issues for over 15 years. Both use 6v ballast resistor Bosch coils, but with direct 12v feed to the Magnetronic unit. Blue car uses original type distributor cap and race car a 'Mini' type. Race car routinely revs to 7500 and under-bonnet temperatures can be very high. No idea why it works for me, yet not others.

Geoff


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:18 am 
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Location: Northwich
I too use the accuspark kit on my Sprint car, and regularly use the rev range aggressively up to 7k and back and, touch wood, have no problems at all. Thus far, I would have no qualms in highly recommending Simon's kits.

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Still searching for Sprint UUW 410M....If you know it or see it, I want it back! Now known to be in the Llandudno area....
Please get in touch!


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:13 pm
Posts: 157
Location: Harrow, NW London
I've got a lumenition set up on my 1850 - on it when we acquired the car- and touching a rather large plank of wood (with the Round Britain coming up) it's worked fine for 7 years!

Cheers
Jeff

_________________
GT6 Mk3 - 1973 (Shiny all over)
Dolomite 1850 - 1980 (Daily summer drive!)
VW Scirocco GTX - 1986 (Long distance weapon of choice)
VW Corrado 2.0l - 1995 (A modern? Well, modern-ish - new suspension = a lovely drive)

MGB roadster - 1978 (for those long hot summer days - ho ho!)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Yes, but here's the thing - a few years ago maybe the quality of the >insert make here< unit was better?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
Just recently had a magnetronic fail (NOT fitted by me) on a customer's Sprint. But in this case, the car's distributor bearings were so worn that the points cam was sometimes rubbing on the magnetronic pickup unit! Which I would regard as a definite contributing factor! I've fitted a good used distributor with points pro tem (thanks Alun!) and the car actually runs better than it did on the Magnetronic, a fact I put down to the extremely bad state of the old dizzy, not to the points actually being better than EI!

I DO wonder sometimes if poor installation is responsible for some of these failures! I always take great care to use the gel between pickup and baseplate, ensure the baseplate earth is present and functional and that the correct coil is fitted, replacing it, if there is any doubt. I'm not trying to impugn anybody's diligence here BTW!

It may just be that we only hear about the failures, not the many thousands of kits from several sources, that have been giving good service for years!

When I first started using Lumenition Optronic, back in the 70s, they were a new and relatively untried thing and I bought a spare amplifier box "just in case". I still have it, still unused!

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:24 am 
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Quote:
What model of Dolomite are you running? The Sprint, with it's unique-to-model 44D4 distributor, seems to be allergic to any sort of EI except the most expensive, Lumenition Optronic or the even more pricey and complex to install 123 programmable distributor. Magnetronics seem to last a few weeks at best and if you are lucky enough to find a NOS Accuspark kit, you'll be even luckier if you can get it work at all! Accuspark appear to have withdrawn the Sprint kit BECAUSE it's failure rate was too high. Though I gather they are now offering an older style "points assisted" system with an external amplifier block, similar to the Piranha systems of the 70s with an Austin Ambassador style distributor cap and leads.

Steve
I used one of those cheap britpart ignition modules on my Sprint engine, with an Ambassador cap and a cheap 12 volt generic coil. It seems to work fine and my experience with the 1500 is the britpart module seems pretty bullet proof.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:27 am 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts: 4705
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Quote:
What model of Dolomite are you running? The Sprint, with it's unique-to-model 44D4 distributor, seems to be allergic to any sort of EI except the most expensive, Lumenition Optronic or the even more pricey and complex to install 123 programmable distributor. Magnetronics seem to last a few weeks at best and if you are lucky enough to find a NOS Accuspark kit, you'll be even luckier if you can get it work at all! Accuspark appear to have withdrawn the Sprint kit BECAUSE it's failure rate was too high. Though I gather they are now offering an older style "points assisted" system with an external amplifier block, similar to the Piranha systems of the 70s with an Austin Ambassador style distributor cap and leads.

Steve
I used one of those cheap britpart ignition modules on my Sprint engine, with an Ambassador cap and a cheap 12 volt generic coil. It seems to work fine and my experience with the 1500 is the britpart module seems pretty bullet proof.
The key to making it work on a Sprint, SEEMS to be the employment of the taller Ambassador distributor cap and rotor. I have here an early ish Sprint kit which looks like Accuspark, or possibly Britpart. I'm not sure of it's ancestry, as I found it, new and boxed, in the boot of a car I bought! However, the point is, that I tried to fit it to the car with the failed Magnetronic, ( the replacement dizzy, not the knackered original) only to discover that the rotor arm (supplied with the kit and slightly thinner than a genuine Lucas one) still fouled the top of the pickup/module! Noting this, I didn't try to run the car with it and put the points in instead! But I may get an Ambassador cap and matching rotor and leads and try it on some future project!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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