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 Post subject: 1500 Fast Road Camshaft
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:34 pm 
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As we as in the process of rebuilding our 1500HL engine and making some minor improvement along the way, can anyone recommend a fast road camshaft 266/270 duration
Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
I haven't got round to building my 1500 Spit engine yet, but I bought a fast road cam from newman cams
http://www.newman-cams.com/wp-content/u ... riumph.pdf

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:05 pm 
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A MK3 spitfire profile on a 1500 cam is a good compromise, bit more power etc without going silly. Or a TR5 profile as that is aimed at keeping revs sensible. And remember you need to increase the CR with a fast road cam.

I managed to kill several cranks in my 1500, so be careful and use the very best oil (millers CSS) and an oil cooler with thermostatic control. The engines seem to last better with those 2 in place!

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Clive Senior
Brighton
Driving Toledo fitted with slant 4, sprint OD box and axle. Needs fettling!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:49 am
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Location: Wellington NZ
Quote:
A MK3 spitfire profile on a 1500 cam is a good compromise, bit more power etc without going silly. Or a TR5 profile as that is aimed at keeping revs sensible. And remember you need to increase the CR with a fast road cam.

I managed to kill several cranks in my 1500, so be careful and use the very best oil (millers CSS) and an oil cooler with thermostatic control. The engines seem to last better with those 2 in place!
Is the mk3 spitfire profile on a 1500 cam different to what a 1500 Toledo will have as standard? Where can I get a mk3 profile camshaft? Can I use one of these with out changing the compression ratio?

Im led to believe that as this engine is an export spec motor (New Zealand) it will have the spitfire cam carrier arrangement and spitfire cam as standard - is that likely to be a mk3 cam?

Im interested in making my toledo 1500 perform a bit better (a good start will be to install it in a car!) however it will be used mainly around town (lots of hills in Wellington though)

Planning to do the following:

- replace the standard carb with a webber 28/36(?) carb (as per the kits you can buy for spitfires - If you have one of these plus manifold and other bits for sale please get in touch)
- oil cooler
- additional oil feed from bottom of the engine to the top (cant recall its correct name)
- Suitable exhaust manifold for the 1500 (again if you have one of these for sale please let me know)
- electronic ignition of some type

hopefully leave the engine itself alone and concentrate on good auxiliaries (carbs etc)


cheers

Alastair

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Alastair Cox
1971 Triumph Toledo
1975 Triumph Stag
2001 BMW 530i


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:46 pm 
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I would be very careful about an additional oil feed into the top end. The last thing you want to do is starve the bottom of the end of oil.

The 1500 doesn't like to be revved, too long a stroke. What are you to do to make sure you can access any additional power without it going bang on you? Oil cooler seems like a relatively cheap and simple mod, but stuff like balancing the engine could start to get pricey.

Since you don't have an engine in the car, have you considered getting a 1300 or maybe an 1850/TR7 lump?

I actually like the 1500, it is a torquey engine which suits a road car, just not sure if it is ideal of you want something faster.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Location: Wellington NZ
Hi

I've got the engine - just waiting for the rest of the car to turn up, any day soon hopefully!

As far as mods outlined they will be incremental, will probabaly start off with it in standard tuine and see ho it goes from there, but i think an oil cooler and electronic ignition might be the first additions.

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Alastair Cox
1971 Triumph Toledo
1975 Triumph Stag
2001 BMW 530i


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:17 am 
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A few things.
You need to research exactly what the engine is. Somewhere on the internet is info on head heights and so on, the head may be a "normal" spit/dolomite head, or it may be low compression (not good) I think normal on a 1500 is 9.25, so that will be OK with a mk3 cam profile, although a bit more CR wouldn't hurt (9.5) if going for something more aggressive, you may want 9.75... Of course, I have no idea what your petrol is like, that may affect things.

The normal 1500 cam was an 18-58, and the mk3 was 25-65. There is a difference in journal size, but newmans, canley classics etc can supply the cams. Wade cams are in Oz(i think), if that is any help.
Lots of stuff here, although I think the data on the 1296 cams other than mk3 may be incorrect?? http://auskellian.com/paul/links_files/ ... _specs.htm

Re carbs. John Thomason did some detailed comarison many years ago between a single 1 1/2" SU and twins on a std 1500 engine. He optimised both on a rolling road. And discovered there was very very little difference in power output, and a little in economy. John Kipping (he is in New Zealand now, a real guru) liked the single 1 3/4" su setup on a toledo inlet manifold. Just food for thought...

I wouldn't bother with an external oil feed to the rockers. If you do, you need to blank off the oil feed between block and head, and restrict the new one down to 1mm or suchlike to prevent over-oiling and associated issues. The normal feed is perfectly adequate if everything is working correctly and not worn out.

Exhaust manifold. The 1500 has a twin outlet cast manifold also used on the spitfire 1500. a bit better than the std toledo single outlet one, but with a tendancy to regularly blow the manifold-downpipe gasket. I wouldn't bother with the change, if you do fit new studs and nuts, or better still, drill/tap the manifold to 3/8 UNC (or 10mm!) and use cap head bolts to fit the downpipe. That clamped it up much better and no more issues. I had also filed both surfaces flat as they were far from flat when I checked them.

Oil cooler a good idea,but make sure it has a thermostat fitted to prevent the oil running too cold (very bad) and indeed that is a good place to start.

The 1500 engine will never be one to rev, but is nippy as it has a great torque curve. Be aware of this, and don't go and try to build one that develops power at higher revs, it won't last well.

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Clive Senior
Brighton
Driving Toledo fitted with slant 4, sprint OD box and axle. Needs fettling!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Location: Wellington NZ
Thanks Clive some very useful info there. Im told our petrol down here is not of a very high quality (it can cause\ problems in modern european cars) but we can get 98 octane fuel which I use in my stag.

I do have the engine number (will there be a separate Head number etc) so will try and do a bit of research as to what exactly it is and what head etc it has. As far I know it is an original 1500 Toledo motor.
I like your thoughts on carbs, not an area I know a lot about so I will have a look around for a 1 3/4" su especially it means I don't have to change the manifold.
I recall the fiddle I had trying to work out what cam to put with (or what it had in the first place) the weber 38s I had on my Imp!

cheers
Alastair

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Alastair Cox
1971 Triumph Toledo
1975 Triumph Stag
2001 BMW 530i


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:07 am 
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As a reference point, my 1500 engine spec was:
10-1 CR head, some porting (supplied by kingston sports cars many years ago, and unused until I got it) I had it fitted with unleaded seats and had 3 angle seat cuts done.
Cam was a Kent TH5. This lost a lobe and a half in 15K, and yes, was run in correctly and high ZDDP oils used.
Bottom end fully balanced and carefully built with Vandervell bearings, all freshly machined crank, bores etc.
twin HS4 carbs and the cast iron 1500 exhaust manifold.
On the rolling road it made 91bhp at the flywheel....so the same as an 1850

Worth noting the cast iron 1500 exhaust manifold WILL NOT fit with a single carb inlet. I tried, and cut/ground bits off. I would have used a 1300, single outlet exhaust manifold and downpipe, but I didn't have one....

Oh, and that engine would sit at a satnav 100mph on the motorway (4.11 diff, overdrive gearbox) but no3 bearing let go at Goodwood track along the pit straight. Think it was all too much for the poor engine. (a few more cranks died in that engine, now fitted a TR7 engine which is more economical, and a lot more torque/tiny bit more power. Apart from the head gasket, ultimately caused by a previous owner in the distant past running no antifreeze, it has been super reliable. Doing the RBRR for the 2nd time in it)

If you get the chance, track John Kipping down. Think he is in Christchurch. Bound to still be doing the Triumph thing.

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Clive Senior
Brighton
Driving Toledo fitted with slant 4, sprint OD box and axle. Needs fettling!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:41 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:54 am
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Quote:
As a reference point, my 1500 engine spec was:
10-1 CR head, some porting (supplied by kingston sports cars many years ago, and unused until I got it) I had it fitted with unleaded seats and had 3 angle seat cuts done.
Cam was a Kent TH5. This lost a lobe and a half in 15K, and yes, was run in correctly and high ZDDP oils used.
Bottom end fully balanced and carefully built with Vandervell bearings, all freshly machined crank, bores etc.
twin HS4 carbs and the cast iron 1500 exhaust manifold.
On the rolling road it made 91bhp at the flywheel....so the same as an 1850

Worth noting the cast iron 1500 exhaust manifold WILL NOT fit with a single carb inlet. I tried, and cut/ground bits off. I would have used a 1300, single outlet exhaust manifold and downpipe, but I didn't have one....

Oh, and that engine would sit at a satnav 100mph on the motorway (4.11 diff, overdrive gearbox) but no3 bearing let go at Goodwood track along the pit straight. Think it was all too much for the poor engine. (a few more cranks died in that engine, now fitted a TR7 engine which is more economical, and a lot more torque/tiny bit more power. Apart from the head gasket, ultimately caused by a previous owner in the distant past running no antifreeze, it has been super reliable. Doing the RBRR for the 2nd time in it)

If you get the chance, track John Kipping down. Think he is in Christchurch. Bound to still be doing the Triumph thing.

A little off track - But whats involved in converting a 1500 to TR7? I have a spare 1500 engine that i was going to build & tune, But after many many hours of research it seems its not really worth it. Just thinking maybe a TR7 swap would be best... ?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Change all mechanical parts.....

Mine is a TR7 engine, matched to sprint gearbox (although a 1850 box will work, just not last long with me doing the odd rally type of thing) and sprint axle. If you are not too hard on a car the 1850 box and axle would be a good combo.
Obviously a 1850 type exhaust and manifold, sadly the rather better TR7 exhaust manifold can't be used. (won't fit) I picked up a sports exhaust...
I used the OHV type subframe, chopped the engine mount "towers" off and plated them. Then used jag e type engine mounts (available still as OEM parts) and fabricated engine mount brackets off the engine. Alternatively, and less controversially, use an 1850 or sprint subframe and mounts.

I used a passat radiator with a header tank and self-bleeding system. But plumbing is simple enough. Remember the TR7 is the same engine as the 1850, so can be a simple nuts and bolts conversion. Insurance didn't load me at all as it is a "family" engine.

The car is transformed. Quick and torquey, and more economical. 35mpg on the run up and down to Gaydon (280 miles) and when I could I was not faffing. It will sit happily at 90mph all day.

As you are in NZ, you may be able to it a TR7 5 speed box? And a TR7 diff may fit into your axle, (Not sure if that applies to all TR7 diffs)

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Clive Senior
Brighton
Driving Toledo fitted with slant 4, sprint OD box and axle. Needs fettling!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:31 pm
Posts: 41
Thanks for your responses, great reading👍👍


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