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 Post subject: Poly bushes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:53 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Harrow Middlesex
Im change the bushes on my sprint to poly,when i took the lower wishbone bushes out,the were two cup washer either side of the bush,when i fit the poly bushes do i still need the two cup washers ?

thanks Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Poly bushes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
There's quite a lot of controversy over whether to replace this inner TCA bush with poly in the first place. On all the Dolomite range AFTER the Toledo (which has a "normal" bush and tube which wears) there is a sort of rubberized rose joint which wears much more slowly, if at all. My personal inclination is to leave this well alone unless it IS badly worn - and if it IS to replace it with a standard one that ISN'T, new (still available) or good used, rather than polybushing willy nilly.

To answer the question you asked, if you do wish to go ahead with poly, the dust sheild washers may be discarded as they only apply to the rose joint, but don't bin them, they are in short supply, if they are intact, someone will want them!

On Toledos, I polybush their weaker TCA bush and tube regularly (Chris Witor does one specifically for Toledos) but I am quite sparing with poly otherwise, at the front I am content to poly only the subframe and tiebar front bushes (plus solid rack mounts and the inevitable lower column bush in poly) and at the rear, just the upper arm axle end bushes and the rearmost trailing arm bushes. All the rest, I leave in rubber replacing worn bushes with NOS rubber as needed. This is a result of mine and others experience and you will find quite a few others here who agree with me!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Poly bushes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:59 pm 
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TDC Member

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:53 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Harrow Middlesex
Quote:
There's quite a lot of controversy over whether to replace this inner TCA bush with poly in the first place. On all the Dolomite range AFTER the Toledo (which has a "normal" bush and tube which wears) there is a sort of rubberized rose joint which wears much more slowly, if at all. My personal inclination is to leave this well alone unless it IS badly worn - and if it IS to replace it with a standard one that ISN'T, new (still available) or good used, rather than polybushing willy nilly.

To answer the question you asked, if you do wish to go ahead with poly, the dust sheild washers may be discarded as they only apply to the rose joint, but don't bin them, they are in short supply, if they are intact, someone will want them!

On Toledos, I polybush their weaker TCA bush and tube regularly (Chris Witor does one specifically for Toledos) but I am quite sparing with poly otherwise, at the front I am content to poly only the subframe and tiebar front bushes (plus solid rack mounts and the inevitable lower column bush in poly) and at the rear, just the upper arm axle end bushes and the rearmost trailing arm bushes. All the rest, I leave in rubber replacing worn bushes with NOS rubber as needed. This is a result of mine and others experience and you will find quite a few others here who agree with me!

Steve
Steve

thanks for the reply,whats the reasoning for not poly bushing the whole lot,does it make the ride to hard,or does it pull the mounting out the car ?

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Poly bushes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:03 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts: 4754
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Quote:
There's quite a lot of controversy over whether to replace this inner TCA bush with poly in the first place. On all the Dolomite range AFTER the Toledo (which has a "normal" bush and tube which wears) there is a sort of rubberized rose joint which wears much more slowly, if at all. My personal inclination is to leave this well alone unless it IS badly worn - and if it IS to replace it with a standard one that ISN'T, new (still available) or good used, rather than polybushing willy nilly.

To answer the question you asked, if you do wish to go ahead with poly, the dust sheild washers may be discarded as they only apply to the rose joint, but don't bin them, they are in short supply, if they are intact, someone will want them!

On Toledos, I polybush their weaker TCA bush and tube regularly (Chris Witor does one specifically for Toledos) but I am quite sparing with poly otherwise, at the front I am content to poly only the subframe and tiebar front bushes (plus solid rack mounts and the inevitable lower column bush in poly) and at the rear, just the upper arm axle end bushes and the rearmost trailing arm bushes. All the rest, I leave in rubber replacing worn bushes with NOS rubber as needed. This is a result of mine and others experience and you will find quite a few others here who agree with me!

Steve
Steve

thanks for the reply,whats the reasoning for not poly bushing the whole lot,does it make the ride to hard,or does it pull the mounting out the car ?

Dave
Yes and yes!!! :twisted: Plus you can get extra unwanted vibration transmission and noise too!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Poly bushes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:12 pm 
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TDC Member

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:53 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Harrow Middlesex
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There's quite a lot of controversy over whether to replace this inner TCA bush with poly in the first place. On all the Dolomite range AFTER the Toledo (which has a "normal" bush and tube which wears) there is a sort of rubberized rose joint which wears much more slowly, if at all. My personal inclination is to leave this well alone unless it IS badly worn - and if it IS to replace it with a standard one that ISN'T, new (still available) or good used, rather than polybushing willy nilly.

To answer the question you asked, if you do wish to go ahead with poly, the dust sheild washers may be discarded as they only apply to the rose joint, but don't bin them, they are in short supply, if they are intact, someone will want them!

On Toledos, I polybush their weaker TCA bush and tube regularly (Chris Witor does one specifically for Toledos) but I am quite sparing with poly otherwise, at the front I am content to poly only the subframe and tiebar front bushes (plus solid rack mounts and the inevitable lower column bush in poly) and at the rear, just the upper arm axle end bushes and the rearmost trailing arm bushes. All the rest, I leave in rubber replacing worn bushes with NOS rubber as needed. This is a result of mine and others experience and you will find quite a few others here who agree with me!

Steve
Steve

thanks for the reply,whats the reasoning for not poly bushing the whole lot,does it make the ride to hard,or does it pull the mounting out the car ?

Dave
Yes and yes!!! :twisted: Plus you can get extra unwanted vibration transmission and noise too!

Steve
Steve

is it a good idea to do the anti role bar ? i bought a kit and was going to change the lot,but may not now

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Poly bushes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:26 pm 
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TDC Cheshire Area Organiser

Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 5:28 pm
Posts: 437
Location: NANTWICH.
I will vouch for what Steve say's about vibration..... My Dolly was fully polybushed when i bought it and it does have an annoying vibration, only slight but can feel it through the car.

Tony.

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NOW A CLUB MEMBER 2017057 :bluewave:


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 Post subject: Re: Poly bushes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:27 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts: 4754
Location: Highley, Shropshire
I've not felt the need, even with the rather extreme use my car gets! And the polybushed end links seem to break rather easily, mainly due to lack of compliance I think.

An ARB doesn't NEED to be massively taut, so long as it doesn't rattle over bumps, it's OK!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Poly bushes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:34 pm 
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TDC Member

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:53 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Harrow Middlesex
Quote:
I've not felt the need, even with the rather extreme use my car gets! And the polybushed end links seem to break rather easily, mainly due to lack of compliance I think.

An ARB doesn't NEED to be massively taut, so long as it doesn't rattle over bumps, it's OK!

Steve
Steve

looks like ive done some thing right :D was just about to buy the ploy link ends,youve saved me a bit more work and money :D : :D
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Poly bushes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:39 pm 
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TDC Member

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:53 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Harrow Middlesex
Quote:
I will vouch for what Steve say's about vibration..... My Dolly was fully polybushed when i bought it and it does have an annoying vibration, only slight but can feel it through the car.

Tony.
I should have asked on here before jummping in with both feet :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Poly bushes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:49 pm
Posts: 776
Location: Northwich
Cheers Steve and Dave, I'll be having a look at the bushes on my ARB tomorrow! 👍

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 Post subject: Okay........
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:40 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:22 pm
Posts: 6292
Location: Caithness, Scotland
I keep on having to state this,
there are different hardnesses of polyurethane bush available.
It is unfair to dismiss them all out of hand given said differences.




Ian.

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 Post subject: Re: Okay........
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:56 am 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts: 4754
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
I keep on having to state this,
there are different hardnesses of polyurethane bush available.
It is unfair to dismiss them all out of hand given said differences.
Ian.
I'm fully aware of this Ian and i'm sure most of the rest of us are too.

Better manufacturers supply different shore (hardness) rated bushes in different colours to distinguish one rating from another.

But the cheaper ones don't and in most cases are not too fussy about matching the shore rating of OE bushes either.

The moral of this is, of course, buy the good stuff, even if it costs a bit more!

Regardless of this, experience in this field (by direct experimentation) has taught many of us that, even WITH shore matched poly bushes, you can run into problems. I'm not dismissing them all "out of hand" as you suggest, I'm merely saying that practising a little restraint is a good idea, both in terms of ride comfort and the continued longevity of some related suspension components. I use quite a lot of poly bushing myself and regularly fit it to customer vehicles as well. I just don't go mad with it!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: To be fair....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:17 am 
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Location: Caithness, Scotland
Quote:
I'm not dismissing them all "out of hand" as you suggest,
My point was a general one Steve.

If I had felt there was the need to single out a specific comment then I would have quoted it.



thanks,
Ian.

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 Post subject: Re: To be fair....
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:45 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts: 4754
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not dismissing them all "out of hand" as you suggest,
My point was a general one Steve.

If I had felt there was the need to single out a specific comment then I would have quoted it.
thanks,
Ian.
No worries mate!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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