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Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required
http://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34449
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Author:  GTS290N [ Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Hi All,

I have one wing de-rusted, ready to be stripped of all paint and treated with POR-15 on the inside prior to handing to the welder.
The other wing - I can see rust under the part that gets welded to the body. This part seems to be folded in to the wing. Has anyone ever managed to remove this part? See photo's. I'm reluctant to use this otherwise solid wing if I can't remove this rust. :?



Image

Image

Author:  new to this [ Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Hi

your photos dont open,i would paint the inside of both wings that your fitting with zinc primmer,easier to do it now while the wings are of,
do you mean the return edge where the wing meets the door ?

Dave

Author:  soe8m [ Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

I believe there are three spotwelds also holding it in place. The part is folded in between the wing and had then spotwelds in the folded area. I remeber trying to fold one back and three spotweld marks did apear.

Jeroen

Author:  xvivalve [ Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

The old liquid style 'Jenolite' would be what I'd use there

Author:  cleverusername [ Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Quote:
The old liquid style 'Jenolite' would be what I'd use there
Rust converters are a waste of time. They only work on the surface rust, so unless the area is cleaned it will come back.

With rust you either remove it or you might as well not bother.

Author:  Macleesh [ Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Quote:
I believe there are three spotwelds also holding it in place. The part is folded in between the wing and had then spotwelds in the folded area. I remeber trying to fold one back and three spotweld marks did apear.

Jeroen
I have a more or less NOS wing in process of being readied for fitting, fitted to another car just long enough for the door to blow back onto it to crease it. I removed the mounting panel to knock out the damage and it is as Jeroen describes, you assume it's just crimped down but several spotwelds are used. It's worth noting that the wing I have never saw the road but I found copious surface rust lurking.

Sean

Author:  xvivalve [ Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Quote:
Quote:
The old liquid style 'Jenolite' would be what I'd use there
Rust converters are a waste of time. They only work on the surface rust, so unless the area is cleaned it will come back.

With rust you either remove it or you might as well not bother.
Jenolite is NOT a rust converter, it is relatively strong phosphoric acid (well, the old stuff was) which removes rust very effectively.

Author:  cleverusername [ Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The old liquid style 'Jenolite' would be what I'd use there
Rust converters are a waste of time. They only work on the surface rust, so unless the area is cleaned it will come back.

With rust you either remove it or you might as well not bother.
Jenolite is NOT a rust converter, it is relatively strong phosphoric acid (well, the old stuff was) which removes rust very effectively.
Phosphoric acid is there to speed up the process in rust converters and it also converts rust into ferric phosphate, which is a more stable than iron oxide.

I would be amazed if you could just paint it on a panel and it worked. Odds are you would still have some unconverted iron oxide and it would start rusting again. The only thing I have found that works is to grind or cut it out.

Author:  Carledo [ Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Honestly? You are seeking perfection in an imperfect world! If you strip your car to the bare steel, you will find any number of little bits of surface corrosion hidden away and probably some not-so-little ones too!

It's hard enough to find a wing these days that ISN'T full of more holes than your ma's colander! This little bit of surface rust isn't going to bother it, ask yourself how many Dolomite wings you've seen that are rotted in this area and the answer will be a very low figure, probably zero! My inclination would be to clean it up as well as possible, treat it with something to stop oxygen getting to it (like lots of PAINT, it can't oxidize if oxygen can't reach it) and fit it and forget it. It's in an area where chips can't reach it, the rest of the wing will rot away long before that bit does.

If you really MUST remove the flange to treat it, it IS doable as others have stated, it's just a matter of finding the spotwelds that secure it, there are only 3 usually, cautiously drilling them out and then carefully opening up the turned over section a bit to release the closing panel. I once bought an otherwise very good wing that had been removed in this fashion and managed to reconstitute it with a closing panel from another (rotten) wing to make one good one. I got decent money for it too!

Steve

Author:  cleverusername [ Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Quote:
Honestly? You are seeking perfection in an imperfect world! If you strip your car to the bare steel, you will find any number of little bits of surface corrosion hidden away and probably some not-so-little ones too!

It's hard enough to find a wing these days that ISN'T full of more holes than your ma's colander! This little bit of surface rust isn't going to bother it, ask yourself how many Dolomite wings you've seen that are rotted in this area and the answer will be a very low figure, probably zero! My inclination would be to clean it up as well as possible, treat it with something to stop oxygen getting to it (like lots of PAINT, it can't oxidize if oxygen can't reach it) and fit it and forget it. It's in an area where chips can't reach it, the rest of the wing will rot away long before that bit does.

If you really MUST remove the flange to treat it, it IS doable as others have stated, it's just a matter of finding the spotwelds that secure it, there are only 3 usually, cautiously drilling them out and then carefully opening up the turned over section a bit to release the closing panel. I once bought an otherwise very good wing that had been removed in this fashion and managed to reconstitute it with a closing panel from another (rotten) wing to make one good one. I got decent money for it too!

Steve
I can see your point, but it seems a shame to go to all that work and expense and leave rust in the seem.

To my cost I have found quick fixes just don't work with holes and rust. In theory stopping the oxygen reaching it should work, in practice if the reaction continue the expansion of the rust will break through your protective coating.

The only thing I have ever found that works is to grind and cut the rust out. Otherwise you will be seeing it again.

Author:  xvivalve [ Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

https://m.facebook.com/Jenolite/photos/ ... oser=false

Author:  GTS290N [ Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Well the wings were dropped off for soda blasting today, will pick up Thursday. Then treat with Por15 clean, prep and paint on the inside, Machine Mart phosphoric acid on the outside and hand in to the welder Friday.

Alun's link to Jenolite is interesting, here's personal experience with Kurust liquid.
A few weeks ago I removed the rear door card and found the springs on the window winder handle were rusty, very rusty, looked awful and no way they were going back on. I dumped them in 3-1 oil and left for a few days. Made no difference. Tried a few things, no difference. Then dumped them in a tub of very old, very re-used Kurust liquid, it's been re-used so many times it's definitely not the original colour! Then I forgot about them for a couple of weeks.
Rediscovered them when it was time to refit the door card. Unfortunately I don't have a before photo, here's the after:

ImageDSC_0108 by , on Flickr

Author:  GTS290N [ Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Thanks to everyone for the replies and suggestions, all appreciated.
In the end I had the wings soda blasted. Was just going to have the insides done, the guy doing them strongly recommended doing the outside too. Just as well, since one of the wings had quite a few rust spots under the paint. £150.
So the outsides have been wiped with Machine Mart rust preventer (phosphoric acid) and the insides washed with Por-15 Marine Clean (soap) then rinsed with water and treated with Por-15 Metal Prep (smells like a weak phosphoric acid, weaker than the Machine Mart stuff and dyed blue instead of pink) then dried and painted with Por-15 gloss black (it's the only colour I could get in a hurry). Ran out of time tonight, will give them a second coat first thing tomorrow and then they're off to the welder. He's cut off the old wings and repaired all panels, no new ones needed! Bonus.
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Author:  GTS290N [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

Wings on, awaiting paint - in January!
Image
Image

Put the car up on jacks and started to strip the underside. This takes forever with a battery drill. This is a close-up of the front 12 inches of the inner cill, stripped of underseal, wire brushed, coated with Machine Mart anti-rust.

But..... should I paint on POR-15? Or put on a zinc primer and put POR-15 on top of primer?

Image

Author:  new to this [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Wing Prep prior to fitting - help required

I've been using zinc primer on mine

Dave

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