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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:35 am 
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The CEO of Highways England has just announced that classic cars will be off our roads in 30 years. He states that fully autonomous cars will force them off the roads as they will not be able to communicate with classics or older vehicles. He also suggested early autonomous or part autonomous vehicles would be the new classics but some of these could also be banned.

The government is pushing to legislate for these vehicles to be on the road in three years so that as a nation we can be at the forefront of the technology, improve traffic flow, cut down on congestion, and remove human error from driving so making our roads safer. BUT NO FUN.

He then says that we still have plenty of time to enjoy them before this happens. Well I will probably be gone by then or at least stopped driving, but its a sad day for you younger guys. Lets enjoy our cars while we can.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:07 am 
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In 30 years time personal transport will be a thing of the past full stop, as electric vehicles are not the future.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:28 pm 
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The CEO of Highways England has just announced
No, he wrote an opinion piece. He has no say in it at all..

Steve

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:50 pm 
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..........improve traffic flow, cut down on congestion, ..........
Send him up to Edinburgh.
The traffic (mis)management department at the council deliberately create traffic jams, slow down traffic and create congestion to further their blinkered and ivory-towered views. I'm pretty sure they let primary school children loose with a paint box when newly resurfaced roads are line painted. The last thing Edinburgh council wants is free-flowing traffic.

I hope once everyone sees the error of electric (battery) cars that hydrogen gets a proper look-in. Eventually we'll have autonomous electric city transport for non-public transport routes, just like hailing a taxi. I'll pay my monthly fee for a Ferrari model, single occupancy, coloured red. Actually I won't - I'll be dead and buried by then!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Quote:
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The CEO of Highways England has just announced
No, he wrote an opinion piece. He has no say in it at all..

Steve
Yep, he has less than no say on what cars use the road, Highways England are an agency that are responsible for maintaining the motorway network and some A roads, they and especially he doesn't have a say on what cars will use those roads. (they can pit some restrictions on vehicles using some roads due to the structure or condition of the road) but what he said is just his personal opinion.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:53 am 
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I posted this to create a discussion and realise that his comments were personnel and possibly he is playing devils advocate. He will have some insight into what is being considered by those who advise the government, after all they will now be looking into contingency plans for future road policy and design considering the government wants to see these vehicles on our roads in three years.

Personally I agree with comments regarding private ownership, except for the very rich and powerful, it will be a thing of the past. We will pay into a pool and order our hired transport as required with a driverless car turning up when and where required to take us to our destination. Long journies will probably see us deposited at a bus or train station with a car waiting at the other end to take us to the final destination. Battery charge life may still be a big problem as some experts including EV manufacturers saying that battery technology is now not far off its peak. I belive its Toyota that recently said they did not think the future battery life expected by the government was realistic and will not happen. So long trips will not be possible without several recharges, hence trains and busses for lengthy trips. Hybrids or Hydrogen powered vehicles would still be needed if this is the scenario on battery life.

My other thoughts go to one of his reasonings that to me doesn't make sence. He says that classics will be off the roads because autonomous cars will not be able to comunicate with them. Sounds plausable at first but an autonomous car can't confer with a horse, dog, cat, child etc so must be able to see and react to these and anything else it can't comunicate with, so why not a classic car. Me thinks he shot himself in the foot with that one.

I'm cynical but suspect there are other reasons they will want classics off the road or limited, and possibly that is polution and fuel supply. Maybe he was playing devils advocate and he's a classic fan and wants to see them still in use for as long as possible.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:37 am 
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I'm cynical but suspect there are other reasons they will want classics off the road or limited, and possibly that is polution and fuel supply. Maybe he was playing devils advocate and he's a classic fan and wants to see them still in use for as long as possible.
That's more likely to be the reason - you simply won't be able to buy petrol. Even if it's not legislated, once the vast majority of cars are electric, there won't be a need for a network of filling stations or refineries, so there won't be any petrol to buy...

There are two big problems I see with the whole autonomous/electric car thing.

The first is the batteries - current Lithium-Ion technology uses a lot of rare-earth metals. We don't have any of those*, so we have to buy them from China - it won't be long before China says "actually, we need them all ourselves, so we're not going to sell you any", and then we're screwed. We need to either develop new technologies that don't need fresh raw materials, or get very good at recycling, very quickly. (If anyone thinks that won't happen, note that China have already refused to take any more of our waste...)

The second problem is that these automated, hire-on-demand technologies are all geared towards urban areas and motorways - How will an automated car cope with a filthy slurry-covered country lane in January? Where will the "car on demand" come from if you're in a small village or farm an hour's drive from the nearest town? What if you need to lug a bootful of tree cuttings to the tip?

They may be a great solution if you live in the middle of London, but then if you do, you've got a great public transport network already and so don't need a car!

* there are no sources of any of the key rare-earth elements anywhere in Europe.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:14 am 
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I'm cynical but suspect there are other reasons they will want classics off the road or limited, and possibly that is polution and fuel supply. Maybe he was playing devils advocate and he's a classic fan and wants to see them still in use for as long as possible.
That's more likely to be the reason - you simply won't be able to buy petrol. Even if it's not legislated, once the vast majority of cars are electric, there won't be a need for a network of filling stations or refineries, so there won't be any petrol to buy...

There are two big problems I see with the whole autonomous/electric car thing.

The first is the batteries - current Lithium-Ion technology uses a lot of rare-earth metals. We don't have any of those*, so we have to buy them from China - it won't be long before China says "actually, we need them all ourselves, so we're not going to sell you any", and then we're screwed. We need to either develop new technologies that don't need fresh raw materials, or get very good at recycling, very quickly. (If anyone thinks that won't happen, note that China have already refused to take any more of our waste...)

The second problem is that these automated, hire-on-demand technologies are all geared towards urban areas and motorways - How will an automated car cope with a filthy slurry-covered country lane in January? Where will the "car on demand" come from if you're in a small village or farm an hour's drive from the nearest town? What if you need to lug a bootful of tree cuttings to the tip?

They may be a great solution if you live in the middle of London, but then if you do, you've got a great public transport network already and so don't need a car!

* there are no sources of any of the key rare-earth elements anywhere in Europe.
London transport is great but depends on the civility of others.
Hence I have only used about 9 times in the last two decades.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Quote:
I'm cynical but suspect there are other reasons they will want classics off the road or limited, and possibly that is polution and fuel supply. Maybe he was playing devils advocate and he's a classic fan and wants to see them still in use for as long as possible.
That's more likely to be the reason - you simply won't be able to buy petrol. Even if it's not legislated, once the vast majority of cars are electric, there won't be a need for a network of filling stations or refineries, so there won't be any petrol to buy...

There are two big problems I see with the whole autonomous/electric car thing.

The first is the batteries - current Lithium-Ion technology uses a lot of rare-earth metals. We don't have any of those*, so we have to buy them from China - it won't be long before China says "actually, we need them all ourselves, so we're not going to sell you any", and then we're screwed. We need to either develop new technologies that don't need fresh raw materials, or get very good at recycling, very quickly. (If anyone thinks that won't happen, note that China have already refused to take any more of our waste...)

The second problem is that these automated, hire-on-demand technologies are all geared towards urban areas and motorways - How will an automated car cope with a filthy slurry-covered country lane in January? Where will the "car on demand" come from if you're in a small village or farm an hour's drive from the nearest town? What if you need to lug a bootful of tree cuttings to the tip?

They may be a great solution if you live in the middle of London, but then if you do, you've got a great public transport network already and so don't need a car!

* there are no sources of any of the key rare-earth elements anywhere in Europe.
Hydrogen powered internal combustion cars. Would be easy to start with. Then use fuel cells as below:
http://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/present ... ,+HyER.pdf


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm cynical but suspect there are other reasons they will want classics off the road or limited, and possibly that is polution and fuel supply. Maybe he was playing devils advocate and he's a classic fan and wants to see them still in use for as long as possible.

The second problem is that these automated, hire-on-demand technologies are all geared towards urban areas and motorways - How will an automated car cope with a filthy slurry-covered country lane in January? Where will the "car on demand" come from if you're in a small village or farm an hour's drive from the nearest town? What if you need to lug a bootful of tree cuttings to the tip?

They may be a great solution if you live in the middle of London, but then if you do, you've got a great public transport network already and so don't need a car!
Totally agree, this is all focussed on the urban situation and would be useless to all of those of us who live in country areas. They have already reduced or closed most of our public transport so private vehicles are the only way to travel.

At least I can take consolationfrom the fact that in 30 years time its unlikely I will still be driving!

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 Post subject: Yes,....
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Hydrogen powered internal combustion cars. Would be easy to start with. Then use fuel cells as below:
http://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/present ... ,+HyER.pdf
I agree with you Bill, this does look like a way forward.

Nissan are in 2020 intending to market a variation on the above using a water/ethanol mix.
It'll be interesting to see how this develops.



Ian.

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