The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

I agree bill, as a youngster I was regularly in a family members car who regularly had more than a pint in him. It wasn't frowned upon as much back in the 70`s and being a child I didn't know any better. Thing is he drove better than some idiots that drive sober now.
I don't condone drink driving, better to have nothing if driving. Accidents happen and alcohol adds to the lack of reaction.
That said, how many accidents DONT happen everyday because good/sober drivers are more aware of the bad ones?
Bad drivers cause accidents and are usually the ones lucky enough to leave the scene of a catastrophe they've caused.
Drunk drivers are usually caught.
You need limits but I think this is designed to snare more people the day after and generate revenue under the guise of safety.

And so the truth is told....

The fact is that the number of drink driving incidences has been in steady decline over decades, simply because most people now either have a drink, or they drive - they don't do both. When you examine the statistics around road deaths "attributed" to drink driving (I deliberately use the word loosely), you will see that in over 70% of circumstances the fatality was in fact the drunk driver themselves. This of course does not condone it - I use the example merely to demonstrate the utter offal peddled around this emotive subject.

Alun's scientific facts are absolutely on the nail, and so it's simple - if you want a drink, then leave the car and get about another way.

This change is all about raising revenue, and nothing whatsoever to do with road safety. Because of the diminishing convictions for drink driving (because folk leave the car at home and get a cab or use public transport), there is an increasing tendency for police forces to try and get "just over the limit" type convictions the following morning. This started with the Met, who now achieve nearly 50% of their convictions this way. Round my way they have been on the main arterial roads into London every morning this week randomly stopping people - not because they are driving poorly or erratically (they have been almost entirely in crawling traffic and barely moving at all) - but because it is arrests and thereby income, and it's easy.

Anybody trying to construct any kind of safety justification behind such a change is utterly fallacious.

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Martin.

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There was quite a lot of media coverage prior to the legislation being implemented. It was however, like everything, overshadowed by the referendum coverage.

The 50mph speed limit on the A9 is for HGVs, increase from 40mph. The upgrade plan is being implemented to dual the A9's single carriageway sections between Perth and Inverness.
There is now way more traffic on the A9 than the planners ever thought possible (where are all these folk travelling to?). The timescale is about 10 years .
I don't understand the argument against the speed cameras.

If I was going for a ban on any vehicles then it would be 4x4s......



thanks for sharing your thoughts,



Ian.

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I disagree.
In Scotland you get banned for drink driving. In addition you will probably be fined a small amount and also could lose the vehicle.
You will have been detained in custody until your first court appearance too.
If the change was purely about raising revenue from punishments then the Government would have simply increased the minimum level of fine.
(The current awareness campaign in the media must be costing a sizeable fortune......?)

As it is, the revenue from fines goes nowhere near to meeting the costs of actually administering the justice system. There are moves to "streamline" the system
by reducing sittings, downgrading some of the Sheriff Courts, making more use of JPs (Justices of the Peace) and more fixed penalties, etc.



As an aside, you can be banned for speeding in Scotland too (straight red card so to speak). The case this month of the Auto Express writer is an example.....




thanks,
Ian.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30632814








Ian.

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More numbers that do not deserve the term statistics.
Remove the drugs from the numbers.
How many people were breathalysed in 2013? (the numbers also need to adjusted for drugs).
In both 2013 and 2014 how many of the numbers were random stops and how many were behaviour/accident induced?
In 2014 how many of those that broke the drink drive limit were between the old and the new limit?
Do we think Police Scotland and the politicians would release figures that showed an increase in the number of drink (and drug !) driving now that a new limit is in force? I would have expected a higher number of people breaking the law, but that would be bad press....
I haven't seen so many early morning random patrols this year, hmmm......
With more figures some armchair statisticians might be able to draw some conclusions. Until then, it's a load of ..........
Unfortunately we live in a land where soundbite is all, and people do not posses the wit to dig deep enough to make sound judgement on whether what is being inferred is accurate or not.

Of course no-one should ever drive when above the limit, whether it's the old limit or the new limit, it is against the law and they deserve everything they get.

I would think they'd love to release figures showing the number of people caught having gone up a bit, that would prove that they* were right wouldn't it?

I can't help but think the number of people who are driving a car at between 50 and 80mg and in perfect control has got to be pretty tiny hasn't it?

*they being whoever thought it was a change worth making

The figures are simply the number of convictions. There was fairly recently a year where the number of convictions rose
during the Festive Campaign.
The court records are available for all to view, from these you can determine the precise details of convictions and punishments applied.






Ian.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-h ... s-30972743





Ian.

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"according to new figures."
More rubbish.
As I said somewhere else, 'figures' are utter balderdash, and being repeated ad nauseum until it's been heard so often people think they must be true.

"the figures will be meaningless anyway when they come out, mainly because they will have nothing to compare them against.

“There is no comparison of traffic volumes, journey times"

So, average speed cameras have reduced speeding.
Bloody genius. I'm shocked and stunned. Who would have thunk it?

On the speeding, the only comparison can be for the number of convictions since these are a matter of public record.
These have gone down. Hopefully this trend will continue.
Furthermore, importantly, there were no crashes resulting in deaths during this three month period .

Any other statistical analysis, as you say Bill, is very much open to interpretation/distortion/cherry picking, etc.


I have spoken to several folk who have travelled on the A9 between Perth and Inverness and they all observed that there was less
overtaking (speeding) and none seemed particularly bothered that the journey time may be longer. One did comment that he could
imagine drivers getting bored just sitting in a "convoy". I wonder if the scenery may be something of a distraction then too ?




Ian.

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It's the crashes, injuries and deaths we should be worried about, I actually don't care about the speeding on main trunk roads like that.
If anyone was really bothered about safety the road would have been dualled from start to finish and with under/overpasses for every junction.
A speed camera won't stop a tourist from turning onto the road, whether single or dual, in the wrong lane.

The people of Scotland spent 1 billion pounds on trams in Edinburgh no-one wants, yet we can't build a decent safe road.

Lets' leave the 'safety' statistics for a couple of years, then we'll see what's what. Better still, slow the traffic down to walking speed and have a man wave a red flag in front of the car. That sounds safe to me.

Bill, that is already underway but it is a mammoth undertaking, the estimated completion date is not for another decade.
The 60mph average speed cameras are a temporary measure in the meantime, as is the 50mph limit for HGVs.





Ian.

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Drink-driving, please learn from my experience!

As you well know, some of us have been known to have had brushes with the
authorities on our way home from an occasional social session over the
years.

A couple of nights ago, I was out for an evening with friends and had a few
glasses of wine. Knowing full well I may have been slightly over the limit,
I took a taxi home. Sure enough, I passed a police road block but, since it
was a taxi, they waved it past. I arrived home safely without incident,
which was a real surprise as I have never driven a taxi before and am not
sure where I got it or what to do with it now that it's in my garage!

Mig's cabs eh?!

Interesting conversation this. My own views are that you might get away with two pints depending on your body type, the strength of the tipple, the amount of time it was drunken over, if food was eaten at the same time. And that's the rub, by setting an ambiguous limit like the current one then people will play the numbers game, so set a next to zero amount and make it clear that drinking and driving on busy fast roads is just not acceptable today full stop.

A previous next door neighbour regularly used to drink 5 or more pints a night and drive, and I found this out after accepting a lift with them as they drove at high speed as they were late, I could not wait to get out of the car I can tell you, and never again. In saying that, my own father used to drink and drive regularly, all night sessions at the Potters Bar Conservative club (Labour man though!) and him and my mother then driving home as the sun came up were not unheard of, neither was helping my uncle into his car and pointing him in the general direction of home. These stories filled me with horror, but the only time my dad ever had an accident is when a Metro bus took off the side of his Ford Zodiac as he went around the roundabout near Shipley after dropping me off at school, and he was sober at the time. I guess it that it was socially acceptable back then (70s), added to the fact that roads were quieter, traffic slower but it wasn't right, but I don't know otherwise how he got away with it, and I don't mean not being caught by the rozzers.

On a side note, the A9, that road is dangerous as hell, and not because of the speeding, the caravans, the lorries, or Mable on the way to the post office in a 1981 Chevette that just does 40mph no matter, but the lack of decent overtaking opportunities and the inevitable frustration and chances taken caused. Though, I must say that the scenery is nice, unless it's dark and your mates Tigra with a red top Astra engine shoehorned has just burst into flames due to bad wiring by an auto electrician and you end up having to tow it for 90 miles to Loch Laggan...

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Current fleet: '75 Sprint, '73 1850, Daihatsu Fourtrak, Honda CG125, Yamaha Fazer 600, Shetland 570 (yes it's a boat!)

Past fleet: Triumph 2000, Lancia Beta Coupe, BL Mini Clubman, Austin Metro, Vauxhall Cavalier MK1 & MK2, Renault 18 D, Rover 216 GSI, Honda Accord (most expensive car purchase, hated, made out of magnetic metal as only car I've ever been crashed into...4 times), BMW 318, Golf GTi MK3 16v x 3