The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:42 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7040
Location: Highley, Shropshire
There is a word for folk like you Harvey, MASOCHIST!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:50 am 
I found this article written about modifications that one guy has made, including some straight forward changes to reduce body roll:
http://oldsite.p6club.com/improvingthep6.doc

Loads of potential I reckon and the more I read, people who do, or have, owned them all tend to be pretty positive.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:59 am 
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Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:59 pm
Posts: 311
Quote:
There is a word for folk like you Harvey, MASOCHIST!
I wouldn't say so, after the first few hundred you do, they start getting easier. :lol:

_________________
Currently over 35 years worth of fixing 35 boxes.
Hoping to reach 65 years worth of fixing 65 boxes.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:27 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7040
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Quote:
There is a word for folk like you Harvey, MASOCHIST!
I wouldn't say so, after the first few hundred you do, they start getting easier. :lol:
Ah! That was my mistake then, I've probably done less than 100 in the last 45 years (none in the last 15)

I generally reckon that the first time I do something tricky, its hard, the second time is much easier, and by the third try, i've got it down pat.

If this doesn't work, then the job is obviously a complete PITA and best avoided in future! I get no pleasure from banging my head against a brick wall and cursing "designers" is only a momentary relief!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:13 pm 
So, over the last 2 days I have test driven 2 very different V8 P6's and can pretty much concur what all have said.
I drove a hotted up 3500S with power steering and 5 speed SD1 box that has many practical improvements made to it over the years. I also drive a very original, low mileage 3500 Automatic, with original fitted power steering. Both series 2 cars.
Blimey, they are lovely aren't they. Very solid feeling, beautiful engineering as Martin said, and a great ride. Very civilised and a great cruiser, but certainly not a car to throw around.
The only minor gripe from an ergonomic perspective is the wiper control. Not exactly important, I just noticed it because I was driving in stop start rain. There is a reason that 99% of cars have them on stalks close to hand! Other than that, I thought the interior a lovely place to be, although as has been mentioned certainly no roomier than the Triumph.
I imagine that I would miss the driving experience of the Triumph. My car is pretty extreme I guess, with no sound insulation on the bulkhead or the interior floor, and so I found the Rover to be predictably quieter.
I think it would take a lot of changes to the suspension and a highly tuned V8 to provide anything close to the thrills of the Triumph.
I wonder if it is time to start afresh with another car like the Rover, and create something done to my taste. I'm just not sure I could actually let the Triumph go, and in reality, it would be a bit crazy after spending years modifying it to my own taste.
Some thinking to do......


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:30 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7040
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Having said i've been priced out of the big Triumphs, earlier in this thread, Karma has rewarded me with not one, but TWO 2500S estates for reasonable money on the 'bay ATM! I really fancy the red one, it was born on my wife's birthday - must be a sign!
Surely your Toledo is tax free Al, just think "as well as" or "complimentary to" rather than "instead of" and a beefy cruiser makes more sense!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:27 pm 
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Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:59 pm
Posts: 311
Quote:
The only minor gripe from an ergonomic perspective is the wiper control. Not exactly important, I just noticed it because I was driving in stop start rain. There is a reason that 99% of cars have them on stalks close to hand!
Most of the time the variable delay gets around that little problem. Providing it's working of course.....

_________________
Currently over 35 years worth of fixing 35 boxes.
Hoping to reach 65 years worth of fixing 65 boxes.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:53 pm 
The variable delay unit is one of several little problem parts on the P6. The very last cars in 1976 had, I think, a different unit to all the earlier models. Some things to watch out for, with apologies if you know some or all of them already :

1) Top bearing in the steering column. Unobtainable new but can be got secondhand. They disintegrate completely.

2) Steering column adjustment bolt. Check it actually does stop the column moving up and down as it's quite a difficult little fix for something that looks straightforward. The plastic covers at the top of the steering column can go very brittle with age and sunlight.

3) Fuse box that has been on fire or got very hot. It's worth checking for melting or melted plastic.

4) Rust in the base unit at the bottom of the C panels. Check from underneath by putting your hand up as far as you can above and slightly in front of the rear wheels. If you find air or rusty bits coming away, be careful depending on the price.

5) Loose spare wheel mounting screw nut leading to rattles. This is a really awkward little fix due to the need to weld the nut back on in the boot with the petrol tank not far away - the sort of thing where a seller says "that's easily fixed, i just haven't got round to it..."

6) Clearances between the underside of the car and the exhaust. It needs quite a bit of patience to get the exhausts not to bump or rattle somewhere so worth testing over a few bumps and possibly with someone in the back.

7) Rust underneath the back seat. Take out the seat bases and check the base unit carefully, especially in the corners nearest the roadsides.

8) Rust in the sills. The cover panels give absolutely no indication of what the structural sills under them are like and they can look super on the outside and be virtually non existent on the inside.

9) The chromework. Those bumpers have an incredible amount of chromed surface area on them and with the 3500's overriders, they all need to be in really good order if you want to avoid a seriously heft rechroming bill. The steel underneath isn't the best and again, best if they've been well restored recently by someone else. Everything else is nearly all stainless fortunately but wants to be in good, non dented or twisted order.

My main experience has been with the 2200 so I've kept off the mechanical bits really here as you seem to be heading for a 3500. Just if it's any use, the manual gearchange mechanism, which I think is the same on both, now tends to suffer from worn bushes in the remote extension. these are £20 a pair and once you have the unit in your hands, they are changed in 10 minutes. However, it is a long and tiring job to reach that stage. Jack well up, remove exhaust and prop shaft, drop engine and gearbox, remove remote control (blind) from underneath, change bushes, reassemble. Sounds straightforward but the sort of job that is worth paying for someone else to have done it as there is a good six hours or so in it. It doesn't even rate a mention in any of the manuals because they never wore out first time round!!

The rear brakes are as awkward as they have a reputation for so again, worth paying for a recent comprehensive overhaul.

Parts for P6s have become far more expensive than they ever were in relation to some other cars. You'll no doubt know the usual suspects for parts but just be aware of the cost of things like ball joints bushes (of which there are many), shock absorbers and body panels. Heritage made some replacement wings a while ago and I bought two rear wings for the last P6 I had. The man I got them from ceased trading when he became terminally ill and his stock went to a well known supplier who was then selling the same wings for nearly 3 times the money. The point is, someone who has restored a car well five to ten years ago couldn't do the same now for the anything like the same money and so the best restored car you can find for the money is likely to be the best buy.

Finally, I've been told by people who had several P6s that the best of them were definitely the pre Leyland built cars. The earlier ones did seem to be less rusty and just better put together. I've always liked both Rovers and Triumphs but I decided last year to sell the P6 I had and have a 1947 Rover instead, as well as some Triumphs. They all have their good points and for travelling a distance in the P6 is a very satisfying car. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:54 pm 
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TDC Member
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:20 pm
Posts: 1293
Location: Shetland / here & there
Quote:
Having said i've been priced out of the big Triumphs, earlier in this thread, Karma has rewarded me with not one, but TWO 2500S estates for reasonable money on the 'bay ATM! I really fancy the red one, it was born on my wife's birthday - must be a sign!
Surely your Toledo is tax free Al, just think "as well as" or "complimentary to" rather than "instead of" and a beefy cruiser makes more sense!

Steve
Estate "2000s" (I know they're 2500 but I still call them 2000s) are pretty rare, and then just like busses two appear at once! I've my hands full with the Sprint, but a little nostalgic part of me wants either an Austin Cambridge that I used to fall asleep on the back seat of, or a Triumph 2000 that my dad came home in one day to much family applause!

_________________
Current fleet: '75 Sprint, '73 1850, Daihatsu Fourtrak, Honda CG125, Yamaha Fazer 600, Shetland 570 (yes it's a boat!)

Past fleet: Triumph 2000, Lancia Beta Coupe, BL Mini Clubman, Austin Metro, Vauxhall Cavalier MK1 & MK2, Renault 18 D, Rover 216 GSI, Honda Accord (most expensive car purchase, hated, made out of magnetic metal as only car I've ever been crashed into...4 times), BMW 318, Golf GTi MK3 16v x 3


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:54 pm 
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TDC Member
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:02 pm
Posts: 2279
Location: Nr Kenilworth
Thanks for the informed highlights Simon, I'm sure that'll be of use here to those going for a P6 :thumbsup:

Tony

Quote:
The variable delay unit is one of several little problem parts on the P6. The very last cars in 1976 had, I think, a different unit to all the earlier models. Some things to watch out for, with apologies if you know some or all of them already :

1) Top bearing in the steering column. Unobtainable new but can be got secondhand. They disintegrate completely.

2) Steering column adjustment bolt. Check it actually does stop the column moving up and down as it's quite a difficult little fix for something that looks straightforward. The plastic covers at the top of the steering column can go very brittle with age and sunlight.

3) Fuse box that has been on fire or got very hot. It's worth checking for melting or melted plastic.

4) Rust in the base unit at the bottom of the C panels. Check from underneath by putting your hand up as far as you can above and slightly in front of the rear wheels. If you find air or rusty bits coming away, be careful depending on the price.

5) Loose spare wheel mounting screw nut leading to rattles. This is a really awkward little fix due to the need to weld the nut back on in the boot with the petrol tank not far away - the sort of thing where a seller says "that's easily fixed, i just haven't got round to it..."

6) Clearances between the underside of the car and the exhaust. It needs quite a bit of patience to get the exhausts not to bump or rattle somewhere so worth testing over a few bumps and possibly with someone in the back.

7) Rust underneath the back seat. Take out the seat bases and check the base unit carefully, especially in the corners nearest the roadsides.

8) Rust in the sills. The cover panels give absolutely no indication of what the structural sills under them are like and they can look super on the outside and be virtually non existent on the inside.

9) The chromework. Those bumpers have an incredible amount of chromed surface area on them and with the 3500's overriders, they all need to be in really good order if you want to avoid a seriously heft rechroming bill. The steel underneath isn't the best and again, best if they've been well restored recently by someone else. Everything else is nearly all stainless fortunately but wants to be in good, non dented or twisted order.

My main experience has been with the 2200 so I've kept off the mechanical bits really here as you seem to be heading for a 3500. Just if it's any use, the manual gearchange mechanism, which I think is the same on both, now tends to suffer from worn bushes in the remote extension. these are £20 a pair and once you have the unit in your hands, they are changed in 10 minutes. However, it is a long and tiring job to reach that stage. Jack well up, remove exhaust and prop shaft, drop engine and gearbox, remove remote control (blind) from underneath, change bushes, reassemble. Sounds straightforward but the sort of job that is worth paying for someone else to have done it as there is a good six hours or so in it. It doesn't even rate a mention in any of the manuals because they never wore out first time round!!

The rear brakes are as awkward as they have a reputation for so again, worth paying for a recent comprehensive overhaul.

Parts for P6s have become far more expensive than they ever were in relation to some other cars. You'll no doubt know the usual suspects for parts but just be aware of the cost of things like ball joints bushes (of which there are many), shock absorbers and body panels. Heritage made some replacement wings a while ago and I bought two rear wings for the last P6 I had. The man I got them from ceased trading when he became terminally ill and his stock went to a well known supplier who was then selling the same wings for nearly 3 times the money. The point is, someone who has restored a car well five to ten years ago couldn't do the same now for the anything like the same money and so the best restored car you can find for the money is likely to be the best buy.

Finally, I've been told by people who had several P6s that the best of them were definitely the pre Leyland built cars. The earlier ones did seem to be less rusty and just better put together. I've always liked both Rovers and Triumphs but I decided last year to sell the P6 I had and have a 1947 Rover instead, as well as some Triumphs. They all have their good points and for travelling a distance in the P6 is a very satisfying car. Good luck!

_________________
Membership 2014047


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