The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
Oh feck! The engine management light has come on again on the way to work along with the "Depollution system faulty" message. I had some other lights come on which disappeared as soon as I stopped the engine and restarted it. I took the motorway route to give it good blast. When I set off home the light and message were still showing so I came home via the motorway to give it another blast but it made no difference. I've been checking the C4 forum and the problem can be caused by a clogged EGR valve (highly likely on a diesel engine with just shy of 120,000 miles on the clock and of unknown service history prior to my ownership) so on my way home I bought a can of Wynns diesel EGR cleaner. It thought it would be worth a try before I do any actual spannering and there were plenty of good reviews on the Halfords website. When I got home I undid the air cleaner lid to get access to the intake (as if I was changing the air filter). The joint for the intake hose is past the MAF sensor and I didn't want to bypass it as the stuff will be fine with the MAF. I started the engine and the engine management light went out (bloody typical!). I'd already bought the stuff and this it the 3rd time the engine management light has come on so the problem isn't going to go away. I followed the instructions on the tin. You give it a 1 second burst, the revs go up, the engine makes a knocking sound (this is normal when you do this), wait until the engine settles back to normal idling speed and repeat until it is used up. Once the stuff has been used up you let it idle for 5 minutes, switch the engine off, button everything up and take if for a 5-10km drive which is either side of 5 miles (5 miles is about 8km). I also cleared all the fault codes which have been triggered during this treatment. I've been down to the local Asda and it is running fine. They've reduced petrol and diesel by 2p a litre so I've filled up with diesel (the gauge was reading a notch under half full). Some of the reviewers on the Halfords website reported an increase in fuel economy (I know that this is very subjective) so I'll see if my fuel economy improves as well. I've been averaging just under 40mpg which is better than petrol for the same type of driving.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:06 pm 
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
I've used this EGR cleaner type stuff (which is available from a number of different makers, but basically the same) on the instructions of customers (well it might work and its cheaper than a new EGR is their comment)
Not once has it made a blind bit of difference and later dismantling of the EGRs has shown without doubt, that by the time the stuff gets that far into the engine, it is too attenuated to do any good. It's snake oil for suckers!

Steve

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'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:13 am 
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I'm just trying the simple stuff first. If it doesn't work then I'll pull the EGR valve off and give it a clean. I think these are at the back of the engine and aren't too easy to get to so I'm trying to avoid this if at all possible. I'll know once I've put some more miles on.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:49 am 
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Almost all fuel additives are true saying it improves fuel economy. Just add a lot in the fuel tank and you car uses less fuel. Same as for oil additives. Less oil consumpsion but a bit more additive consumption.

Jeroen

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:22 am 
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Jeroen, what you say is true. The BG range of products are the ones that actually work. I used the BG44K in the Astra as part of the annual service and it went through the emissions part of the MoT with flying colours so I know it works. I'm going to use the BG109 (engine oil flush) on the next oil change. This is the one oil flush which does exactly what it is supposed to do (remove the harmful deposits and keep them suspended in the oil so that they will come out when the oil is drained). I've only done 20 miles on the commute to work and the engine feels more responsive and I'm averaging just over 50mpg. It is a bit early to tell so I'll have to keep an eye on it but this is encouraging.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:04 am 
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That's not exactly what I did mean.

Jeroen.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:57 am 
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I have a similar problem on my BMW 730LD,

The emission light comes on and stays on, until I do an oil change, then all is fine for
a couple of weeks, only a couple of weeks.

There is most likely some sensor with a bit of sludge on it, and engine flush is not shifting it.

Checked with the MOT station, all emissions are within pretty much 0% tolerance, with or without the light.

When did all this start, a couple of years ago the turbo blew on the motorway, hydrauliced the engine and
attempted starting lost the starter motor, and to add injury to insult the oil was dumped through the exhaust
which fouled the DPF, also to be replaced.

I've learned to live with the light now, at least the bulb is in working order.

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On the motorway no one can hear me sing!
Construed as a public service, self preservation in reality.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:10 am 
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I'm not aware of any fuel or oil flushes/additives etc. in a bottle which are worth anything, it's pretty much kerosene and snake oil. Nothing you put into an engine will miraculously clean off 120k's worth of muck. The fact your car passed its emissions test is pure coincidence. The test measure unburnt hydrocarbons (fuel) and CO (Carbon Monoxide) and a lot of the results are determined by the efficiency of the cat not by how many bottles of injector cleaner or oil flush you've dumped into the car. When they get old they don't work very well until they're pretty hot. Good testers tend to get the car nice and hot before doing the test. As I say the fact you put something in the tank is neither here nor there. Note how none of the manufacturers are providing proper stripped down photographs of the results, there's zero research to back up any of the claims made by these products. Magazines won't investigate because they rely heavily on the advertising revenue!

Build up starts from day 1 and poor maintenance, pootling around town in a diesel car and non-premium fuels do cause build up. EGR valves in particular are very prone to clogging up if the oil is not changed regularly and today's extended service intervals do not help. I don't care how cheap Asda fuel is I wouldn't go near it, it's a basic product. I have good friends in fuel research and blending and yes it meets the 'standard' but the standard was drawn up decades ago.

The question you have to ask is why was the person selling the car? High mileage, poor service record, French.. Have you bought a pup here?

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Mark

1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
2009 Mazda MX5 2.0 Sport
2018 Infiniti Q30


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:19 am 
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Mahesh, my experience says a good hard thrash to get the cat cooking will do more for cleaning it than anything else. Tricky in a big motor like yours but choose a lower gear and get the cat working.

Tony

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Location: West Yorks
This is my ford lump after 12 months no amount of Winns is gonna shift this.
I even took the manifold off, soaked it, then gave it a scrub.
Bite the bullet Dave take it off, you wont regret it.
Just make sure you have plenty of old rags and gloves.
Its s##t to a blanket.


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75 Sprint in Magenta called GunGaDiN GGD944N
2017 Jaguar XE R-sport
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Quote:
This is my ford lump after 12 months no amount of Winns is gonna shift this.
I even took the manifold off, soaked it, then gave it a scrub.
Bite the bullet Dave take it off, you wont regret it.
Just make sure you have plenty of old rags and gloves.
Its s##t to a blanket.
That's not a very nice sight. Although I drive a diesel car and enjoy the performance and economy it provides I cannot help but feel that they really are dirty and disgusting things that will soon be outlawed. Only this morning I was behind a ratty 08 plate Peugeot belching out some muck, fairly sure it's given me cancer. Give me petrol exhaust fumes any day.

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Mark

1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
2009 Mazda MX5 2.0 Sport
2018 Infiniti Q30


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Mark, the newer diesels are supposed to be a lot cleaner hence the additives such as Eolys that the manufacturers use and the DPFs. There's no soot coming out of my exhaust and I'll be making sure everything is clean even if I have to remove parts to physically clean them. I haven't got to that stage with the EGR valve yet but that will be next if the problem comes back. Most of the additives are indeed snake oil but there are a few that do actually work. Too many owners neglect to manitain their cars and diesels aren't suitable for short journeys. I'm driving to work (20 miles each way) so mine does get a longer journey these days.

_________________
Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7014
Location: Highley, Shropshire
And when you DO bite the bullet and do the cleanup properly, a gallon of brake cleaner is about the same price as an aerosol tin of carb cleaner and it's more or less the same stuff. Add in a pound shop atomizer and you can do every car in the street!

Newer diesels are NOT cleaner than the old oilburners we know and hate, they just give the impression, cos what comes out the back is slightly less lethal. But in truth, it's all smoke and mirrors (pun intended) they are cleaner at the back cos the EGR and DPF recycle some of the crap internally which inevitably leads to the buildup of muck which you (and every other diesel owner) is having to cope with now. Plus some of them cheat (naming no names!)

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:59 am 
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No face mask filters can filter and catch all derv particulates. Inner city cancer right there. I too think they will get banned or at least taxed out of range. I looked for quite a while to find a petrol van and did so cos I hate derv lol. Off for a roll up now :)

Tony

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:17 pm 
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When you come to clean it Dave you will find the inlet manifold will be as bad and there's no point in doing just the valve. Loads of guys on the R75/ZT club have pre soaked their manifolds in dishwasher tabs after stripping out anything sensitive. Then steam clean and expect one big mess so protect everything in the area. Some say that putting the manifold in the dishwasher does a brilliant job.
Now I wouldn't do that even being on my own, but if you do make sure she that must be obeyed is out.

Could your problem be with the dpf. I expect that your engine is the same as fitted to Ford's and Volvo as those engines were developed by psa and ford and made by psa. I know that volvo's need the dpf oil replacing at 37k and total replacement at 75k on the service schedule, that's one of the reasons my V50 is petrol. I suspect yours will be the same. The VOC have many posts by members not replacing them because dealers charge up 1200.00 to do and leave them until they fail. They then give the same messages and lights that you are getting. They recon on getting 90k up to about 120k life, your mileage. You don't have any service history with the car so it could point in this direction.


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