The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 pm 
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TDC Cheshire Area Organiser

Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 5:28 pm
Posts: 325
Location: NANTWICH.
I think people are getting it wrong here??
I think for normal road use...... There is nothing wrong in a tube fitted to a tubeless tyre.
If used for racing or rallying you would not use a tube to sort out a leaky rim!!! As our cars cost a lot when going into a wall.
As regards buying tyres from this guy?? Not me, they are to expensive!! But i am not tear arsing around in my car. So i just make sure they are in good condition.
Back in the 70's it was quite acceptable to fit a tube if you had a tiny puncture that was a bit close to the sidewall, like a tiny panel pin.
I also used to compete in pct's, auto tests and road and stage rallies and spent my whole life in the motor trade.
I just hope some comments are not from "bar stool mechanics"

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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:56 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:02 pm
Posts: 2004
Location: Nr Kenilworth
Me? 37 years in the trade including 4 years in a tyre shop

Tony

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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:37 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:23 pm
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Location: Aberdeen
Hi

Quick question, being of an age that I have never had dealings with tubeless tyre and having read through this thread, I was wondering......

Why would you use tubes, its it purely to fix scabby old wheels that leak?

Also, with modern tyres, I find the inside very rough, surly that would wear away he tube pretty quickly?

Regards

Barry

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1975 Triumph 1500 TC various shades of blue


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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:02 pm
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Quote:
Hi

Quick question, being of an age that I have never had dealings with tubeless tyre and having read through this thread, I was wondering......

Why would you use tubes, its it purely to fix scabby old wheels that leak?
Primarily yes but not a long term fix.

Also, with modern tyres, I find the inside very rough, surly that would wear away he tube pretty quickly?
See my post on previous page

Regards

Barry

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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 5:28 pm
Posts: 325
Location: NANTWICH.
Quote:
Me? 37 years in the trade including 4 years in a tyre shop

Tony
Hi Tony, I am sure you must have fitted a tube to a tubeless tyre at sometime? I would never compromise on safety! Plus i do not think tubes are the way forward.
Also if you get a puncture the tyre goes flat quickly as Clive suggests? That is just not true. All punctures are different. If air leaks from a tube..... It still has to find its way out of the tyre!!
I am saying yes use a tube to stop leaks on a porous alloy...... Or to fix a tiny puncture that can not normally be repaired.
Also never use a tube if used for motor sport.....Except off road IE pct's or when using wire wheels.
I think that if using wire's you would be hard pressed to find a tube type tyre??
Happy safe motoring all :lol: :lol:

Cheers,
Tony.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:12 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Surrey
Hands up who has had a tyre fall off a rim on their Dolomite/Toledo/1300/1500 in the last 15-20 years due to under inflation during normal use?

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Karl-less

1500 MG Midget
Absence of a Dolly or Tolly at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 5:28 pm
Posts: 325
Location: NANTWICH.
Quote:
Hands up who has had a tyre fall off a rim on their Dolomite/Toledo/1300/1500 in the last 15-20 years due to under inflation during normal use?
Is that with or without a tube? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts: 4546
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Since I run 60 or 50 profile tyres on my cars, I don't have the tube option, but a quick point, the Carledo is SO light at the tail that I run it's 195/50/15 rear tyres at 18 PSI for road or track and 10 PSI on the dragstrip. My wear patterns are normal and I certainly have never had a bead seal break, even under race conditions, despite running my tyres in what some would consider a permanently under-inflated state. However, I DO always fit my own tyres (so I know it's done properly) and always inflate them to 50psi on first fitting to ensure a good seal before letting them down to running pressure. Something the Thicktwit fitters NEVER do, along with correctly aligning the red dot OPPOSITE the valve for balance. Because I DO align the red dot, I rarely have to balance a wheel, even with budget tyres!

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:12 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Surrey
:thumbsup: Nice real world case of tyres staying on rims.

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Karl-less

1500 MG Midget
Absence of a Dolly or Tolly at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
Oh and one more thing, I'm old enough to remember the original Cinturato. And this is purely personal, but I never got on with them. They certainly delivered an amazing tyre life and when fitted to VW Beetles, were a definite improvement on the factory fit Michelin ZXs. However, that's not saying much as ZXs had the worst wet performance of any contemporary tyre. As others have pointed out, the look is NOT deceptive and IME the Cints didn't work well in the wet. I've not tried the new ones, obviously - and Pirelli may have used a better compound this time around - but nothing much is going to help that original design tread pattern, which may have been OK for 60s cars performance, but has now been surpassed by modern tyre tech. Since I DO give my cars a bit of welly from time to time, i'd rather have a tyre that works best than one that looks period. Again, purely my own personal taste.

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:19 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:02 pm
Posts: 2004
Location: Nr Kenilworth
Agree Steve. Modern tyre for modern conditions/driving styles. Without tubes! :)

Tony

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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:26 am
Posts: 1836
I am seriously considering a set of Michelin Crossclimates for the toledo, in 175/65 14 flavor.
In a recent Auto Express review ( http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessorie ... yre-review ) they did rather well, and I reckon they may work well as a "cold weather" track tyre, having done Brands and cars sliding everywhere.
And at Blackcircles they have a £25 discount code, making them about £175 for a set of 4....
Sadly, but unsurprisingly, not available in 13"

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Clive Senior
Brighton
Driving Toledo fitted with slant 4, sprint OD box and axle. Needs fettling!


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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:20 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Huntingdon
Quote:
Oh and one more thing, I'm old enough to remember the original Cinturato. And this is purely personal, but I never got on with them. They certainly delivered an amazing tyre life and when fitted to VW Beetles, were a definite improvement on the factory fit Michelin ZXs. However, that's not saying much as ZXs had the worst wet performance of any contemporary tyre. As others have pointed out, the look is NOT deceptive and IME the Cints didn't work well in the wet. I've not tried the new ones, obviously - and Pirelli may have used a better compound this time around - but nothing much is going to help that original design tread pattern, which may have been OK for 60s cars performance, but has now been surpassed by modern tyre tech. Since I DO give my cars a bit of welly from time to time, i'd rather have a tyre that works best than one that looks period. Again, purely my own personal taste.

Steve
TL;DR Sometimes function trumps form.

With those 4 tiny patches of rubber being all there is between me staying on the road and being in a ditch, and as Steve says, I'll opt for the vastly improved modern compounds and computer designed/tested tyres with years of development over something designed by a bloke (bound to have been) in the 70s with a pencil and fag packet, even if it looked nicer.

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Current fleet: Triumph Dolomite Sprint '75, Daihatsu Fourtrak, Honda CG125, Yamaha Fazer 600, Shetland 570

Disposal fleet: Golf GTi 16v MK3 Anniversary

Past fleet: Triumph 2000, Lancia Beta Coupe, BL Mini Clubman, Austin Metro, Vauxhall Cavalier MK1 & MK2, Renault 18 D, Rover 216 GSI, Honda Accord (most expensive car purchase, hated it on pickup from dealer, was made out of magnetic metal as only car I've ever been crashed into, 4 times), Golf GTi MK3 16v x 3


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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:08 pm
Posts: 5523
Location: The Old Asylum
I think I'll be changing the tyres on the Greenbrier. One was an odd size anyway but on closer inspection the date code was 404 on the other 3. So that means it is 1994 or even 1984! Spare is actually a cross ply so couldn't legally be used with a radial so looks like I'll be purchasing 5 new tyres! They are currently white banded ones which look quite nice but more expensive than a plain black tyre.

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Mark

1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
2009 Mazda MX5 2.0 Sport
2015 BMW 118d Sport


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 Post subject: Re: Pirelli tyre fail
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:21 am 
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Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:12 pm
Posts: 16
Quote:
Modern tyre for modern conditions.
I'm not going to get involved in the "to tube or not to tube" argument. i have put my view across, i hope in a way that people can understand and make their own mind up, but rest assured; we do fit lots of very fast cars & racing cars with innertubes. However it is very difficult for me to argue against people that just think i would come on here and make up a pack of lies just to sell tyres.

However i would just like to say something about the above comment. While you are driving a Dolomite Sprint you are effectively not driving in modern conditions, because all the rest of the car is suited to old tyre technology. So although a modern car might have wide low profile tyres, the suspension and steering of a modern car is enormously different. these differences help them utilise all that foot print of a modern tyre, and the carcass shape. Old cars don't have the caster or camber that a modern car has, or the fancy clever self leveling suspension.

Many of the modern developments in tyres are inappropriate to old cars. However there are 2 very brilliant developments in tyre manufacture that we can take advantage of. 1/ build quality, which is much better than it ever was, 2/ modern compounds (particularly better in the wet). Your classic car will handle at it's best when fitted with a current production classic tyre from the likes of top brands such as Michelin, Pirelli or Avon. because the carcass is of a suitable design for cars without caster and adverse camber. However the rubber that is presented to the road on a suitable carcass is of the best quality.

This is interesting https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer ... rticle.pdf


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