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 Post subject: flushing oil
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 am 
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My road-rally car - MG ZR 105, Rover K series 16V in its "core" 1400cc guise - tried to eat its valves a couple of weeks ago (on the way to the start of a rally, which was - erm - annoying). It managed to bend most of the inlet valves, with the result that I acquired a second-hand head - no provenance known but claimed to be a low mileage late (2005) model - and fitted it.

It fired up and ran fine, with the caveat that it's quite tappety - it's a crisp clear single 'tick', rather than a blurry noise that you'd associate with several individual sources. The engine has hydraulic tappets and to me it sounds as if one of the tappets isn't pumping up - either the oilway blocked or the tappet itself seized in its chamber. I took the cam cover off again, but short of running it with the top off (which rapidly gets very messy as it'll distribute most of its oil all over the engine bay, workshop and on the watcher) it's hard to see how I can find out if any of them are seized.

I've just bought some flushing oil and plan to stick that in, run the engine as per instructions and then drain/refill. Then probably change that oil out fairly quickly afterwards too.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

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Ian.

"Bodging old Triumphs since 1983."
Member no. 2017038

Toledo MOY579L (brown 2-door)
and previously...
Dolomite Sprint xxxyyyM (yellow)
Toledo JJB923K (burgundy 2-door)
Dolomite xxxyyyT (blue 1850HL)
Dolomite TRX773M (white 1850)
Dolomite xxxyyyR (white 1500HL)
Toledo YRO318K (burgundy 2-door )


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:25 am 
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Last time I had similar I ran the engine up to temp and then quickly whipped off the cam cover and it was obvious by hand which one (or 2 in my case) could be pressed down, the others were all solid. They actually cleaned up okay and went back in, had just got gummed up.

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Current fleet: Triumph Dolomite Sprint '75, Daihatsu Fourtrak, Honda CG125, Yamaha Fazer 600, Shetland 570

Disposal fleet: Golf GTi 16v MK3 Anniversary, Tiger Avon (unbuilt)

Past fleet: Triumph 2000, Lancia Beta Coupe, BL Mini Clubman, Austin Metro, Vauxhall Cavalier MK1 & MK2, Renault 18 D, Rover 216 GSI, Honda Accord (most expensive car purchase, hated it on pickup from dealer, was made out of magnetic metal as only car I've ever been crashed into, 4 times), Golf GTi MK3 16v x 3


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Hi and thanks.

Funnily enough, when I went to the workshop intending to put the flushing oil in, I started it up to drive it into the unit (it lives outside the back doors) and the ticking had gone! Ran it up to temperature, stopped it, re-started it... sweet as a nut.

So I haven't actually done the flushing oil thing yet. I can and will do an ordinary oil and filter change come what may - the oil hasn't done many miles at all since the last change, but it's been in there for about 9 months, so it'll get changed no matter what. If it hadn't been ticking before, I wouldn't have worried about flushing it out, but I think your trick of whipping the cam cover off and pressing on the tappets is a good call, I'll try that one tomorrow.

Thanks again :-)

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Ian.

"Bodging old Triumphs since 1983."
Member no. 2017038

Toledo MOY579L (brown 2-door)
and previously...
Dolomite Sprint xxxyyyM (yellow)
Toledo JJB923K (burgundy 2-door)
Dolomite xxxyyyT (blue 1850HL)
Dolomite TRX773M (white 1850)
Dolomite xxxyyyR (white 1500HL)
Toledo YRO318K (burgundy 2-door )


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:45 pm 
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Future Club member hopefully!
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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:59 pm
Posts: 244
Quote:

So I haven't actually done the flushing oil thing yet.
Good. Don't do it.

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Currently over 35 years worth of fixing 35 boxes.
Hoping to reach 65 years worth of fixing 65 boxes.


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:17 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts: 4275
Location: Highley, Shropshire
What Harvey said!^^^^^^

Flushing oil often does more harm than good!

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
Vermillion (and Rust) Sprint Auto EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 40 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:06 am 
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:-) ok, I get the message ;-) thanks guys.

Meanwhile my swanky diff for the silver car has just returned from Grippers. Gawd but it looks $exy. Everything new apart from the planet gears :-( so that's - erm - £1250.

(sob)

_________________
Ian.

"Bodging old Triumphs since 1983."
Member no. 2017038

Toledo MOY579L (brown 2-door)
and previously...
Dolomite Sprint xxxyyyM (yellow)
Toledo JJB923K (burgundy 2-door)
Dolomite xxxyyyT (blue 1850HL)
Dolomite TRX773M (white 1850)
Dolomite xxxyyyR (white 1500HL)
Toledo YRO318K (burgundy 2-door )


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:40 am
Posts: 80
:-) ok, I get the message ;-) thanks guys.

Meanwhile my swanky diff for the silver car has just returned from Grippers. Gawd but it looks $exy. Everything new apart from the planet gears :-( so that's - erm - £1250.

(sob)

_________________
Ian.

"Bodging old Triumphs since 1983."
Member no. 2017038

Toledo MOY579L (brown 2-door)
and previously...
Dolomite Sprint xxxyyyM (yellow)
Toledo JJB923K (burgundy 2-door)
Dolomite xxxyyyT (blue 1850HL)
Dolomite TRX773M (white 1850)
Dolomite xxxyyyR (white 1500HL)
Toledo YRO318K (burgundy 2-door )


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:40 am
Posts: 80
:-) ok, I get the message ;-) thanks guys.

Meanwhile my swanky diff for the silver car has just returned from Grippers. Gawd but it looks $exy. Everything new apart from the planet gears :-( so that's - erm - £1250.

(sob)

_________________
Ian.

"Bodging old Triumphs since 1983."
Member no. 2017038

Toledo MOY579L (brown 2-door)
and previously...
Dolomite Sprint xxxyyyM (yellow)
Toledo JJB923K (burgundy 2-door)
Dolomite xxxyyyT (blue 1850HL)
Dolomite TRX773M (white 1850)
Dolomite xxxyyyR (white 1500HL)
Toledo YRO318K (burgundy 2-door )


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:42 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts: 4275
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Is that twitch on the submit button from the size of the bill mate?

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
Vermillion (and Rust) Sprint Auto EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 40 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:46 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts: 4275
Location: Highley, Shropshire
I've had your rattly tappet problem a few times on K series. Sometimes they need to run through a couple or more warm up cycles before they shut up completely.

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
Vermillion (and Rust) Sprint Auto EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 40 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:48 pm 
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Location: Surrey
I have used Wynn's engine flush on on an old MX5 that had similar problem of a few noisy tappets. Apart from stopping the rattling there were no further effects of using it.
I used it immediately prior to an oil change. This was in an engine with 130000 miles on the clock and it was still quiet another 10k on. I am interested in anyone else's experience especially any negative results.

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Absence of a Dolly or Tolly at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Location: NANTWICH.
I have seen flushing oil and the additives destroy some engines in the past, personally i would never use it :wary:
Just regular oil changes using good quality oil is all you need to do.
Sometimes noisy hydraulic tappets sort themselves out as uphill racer has found.
At one time if you fitted new ones, it was best to leave them in a tray of oil overnight to prime them.
Glad its sorted though :D
Cheers, Tony.

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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Quote:
Is that twitch on the submit button from the size of the bill mate?

Steve
:-) It's a t-t-t-t-t-t-twitch that I get from t-t-t-t-t-t-time to t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-t-time...

_________________
Ian.

"Bodging old Triumphs since 1983."
Member no. 2017038

Toledo MOY579L (brown 2-door)
and previously...
Dolomite Sprint xxxyyyM (yellow)
Toledo JJB923K (burgundy 2-door)
Dolomite xxxyyyT (blue 1850HL)
Dolomite TRX773M (white 1850)
Dolomite xxxyyyR (white 1500HL)
Toledo YRO318K (burgundy 2-door )


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Posts: 80
Quote:
I have seen flushing oil and the additives destroy some engines in the past, personally i would never use it :wary:
Just regular oil changes using good quality oil is all you need to do.
Sometimes noisy hydraulic tappets sort themselves out as uphill racer has found.
At one time if you fitted new ones, it was best to leave them in a tray of oil overnight to prime them.
Glad its sorted though :D
Cheers, Tony.
Thanks, Tony. Ordinarily I just use good quality oil and regular changes in the rally car and hillclimber, wouldn't ever bother with flushing oil. In this case though, as per the OP, this was a head that came to me with unknown provenance - and apart from the chance of some polystyrene in the oilways ** - I did suspect it had been sitting for a little while, so any heavier components of the oil in it may have started to thicken/solidify. So hopefully running clean oil through it would eventually clear the tappets and allow them to pump up properly.

** the head came in a big cardboard box, packed out with chunks of expanded polystyrene. No bag or any other wrapping. The seller hadn't thought that the polystyrene would shed individual beads while handled in transit, so when I took it out the cam chamber was full of loose beads! I fished out everything I could find but was then worrying about how many beads were still stuck somewhere... I've run it up a few times now to get it all the way up to temperature, in the hope that the combination of heat and oil will break any remaining polystyrene down before it does any damage

_________________
Ian.

"Bodging old Triumphs since 1983."
Member no. 2017038

Toledo MOY579L (brown 2-door)
and previously...
Dolomite Sprint xxxyyyM (yellow)
Toledo JJB923K (burgundy 2-door)
Dolomite xxxyyyT (blue 1850HL)
Dolomite TRX773M (white 1850)
Dolomite xxxyyyR (white 1500HL)
Toledo YRO318K (burgundy 2-door )


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 Post subject: Re: flushing oil
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:52 pm
Posts: 7366
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
I agree with Steve that most oil flushes don't do what they're supposed to. When I did the last oil change on my C4 Grand Picasso I used BG109 which does exactly what it is supposed to do. I used Total Quartz oil along with a genuine Citroën oil filter and I'll be using genuine service parts in the future so I won't need to do an oil flush again. The price was on a par with good quality aftermarket items so it was a no-branier really. The car is still fine 3 months on.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the 1st Wednesday of every month at The Hollies Sports & Social Club, 12 Hough Lane, Bramley, Leeds, LS13 3NE
1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - The rolling restoration)
2008 Citroën C4 Grand Picasso 2.0 HDi Exclusive (MA08 WCL - the modern)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com

"I can help you stop smoking in bed. Buy a water bed and fill it with petrol." - Bob Monkhouse OBE (1928-2003)


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