The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:18 pm 
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A car that attracts a certain type of person will have money thrown at it, you're right that it isn't always the case about some of these cars not selling, but if someone wants a clean example, odds are that they will be willing to pay the asking price or quite close.

Ads can be quite misleading concerning condition, it all matters when you get there and have look yourself :wink:
I would never buy a car unseen, I had to repair some rust on the rear wing of my car, and I was amazed how much was hidden under what appeared to be a few little bubbles under the paint. Frankly the whole episode made me a bit paranoid about rust. My current car is also far better rust proofed than any Dolly, so I dread to think how much could be hiding in a bad example.


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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:30 pm 
You're right, there can be loads hidden in bad examples and often there is.
There are some very poorly repaired Dolomites out there that net folk in who are not too clued up, it's a shame when they get caught out like this as they end up losing a lot of money.

Fleabay tends to have quite a few questionable Dolomites being sold on there.


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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:48 pm 
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You're right, there can be loads hidden in bad examples and often there is.
There are some very poorly repaired Dolomites out there that net folk in who are not too clued up, it's a shame when they get caught out like this as they end up losing a lot of money.

Fleabay tends to have quite a few questionable Dolomites being sold on there.
The one that set my alarm bells ringing was one that had a load of description of the mechanicals, sweet engine extra, but no mention of the bodywork. Even on the photos I could see rot on the archs, and the sills were covered in hammerite. Could be protection or could be hiding a load of filler.


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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:03 am 
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I don't think talking down values is helpful. It just encourages people to buy them for peanuts and then run them on a shoestring. Over time this depletes the pool of available cars as no one wants to spend decent wedge on restoration.

Cars are only worth as much as someone wants to pay for them. If someone wants to pay £3k for a 1300 then good on them, most 1300/1500's are probably in better condition than most ratty Sprints!

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 Post subject: Hmmm..................
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:55 am 
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There are simply too few Dolomites offered for sale to form any sort of realistic price guide.
It is unlikely that two of identical condition will appear for sale, never mind several.
Each should be looked at as a one-off.



"I don't think talking down values is helpful. It just encourages people to buy them for peanuts and then run them on a shoestring."
The simple truth is that you can run a Dolomite (as well as many many other older cars) as an everyday car for a fraction of
what the average motorist pays. Not everyone is in the luxurious position of having money to burn.
There should be a place for all enthusiasts, rich or poor.




Ian.

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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:06 pm 
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The simple answer is that there is no simple answer. The various classic car price guides are exactly that - a guide. Some trend patterns in classic car prices can be determined from monitoring the values that particular models sell for at auction, but that is about it.

Value derives from three things - condition, rarity, and appeal. The first two of these are pretty measurable, the third is entirely subjective. Mini's, Moggie Minors, Escorts, MGB's etc all have "appeal". Austin Allegro's do not - though there are folk that love them and will not hear a word against them. Nevertheless, they are not a "popular" classic.

Dolomites fit somewhere in the middle. They are a classic that is steadily and slowly gaining in appeal. This is for a number of reasons as I see it. Firstly, there is a general renaissance in 1970's stuff from clothes to cars to Ski yoghurt pots. This has been partly fuelled by the popularity of TV series such as Life on Mars that have highlighted all over again the attractions of this era. Secondly, the Triumph marque in general has bloomed in popularity and Dolomites are no longer overlooked so much in the shadows of the sexier sports car models. Thirdly, the number of Dolomites being restored or refreshed into really first class examples has increased greatly in the last ten years, and the efforts of those folk who have undertaken such work is rubbing off in the form of increased general enthusiasm for the cars, and thereby value.

Thus it is to me perfectly plausible that a first class 1300 with an interesting history could be worth £2.5-3K, while a scrappy Sprint struggles to make £500. This has nothing to do with making money, or the ability to make money. Generally, yes, the value curve goes upwards as you move up the range - so the Sprint is the highest and the 1300 the lowest, but condition is the arbiter here. Someone with £2500 to spend has a diverse choice in the Dolomite range - from a concours 1300, via a very good 1500, a nice 1850 to a decent workaday Sprint. Which of those they select is down to individual choice - it does not mean the 1300 is "overpriced", any more than the Sprint is "underpriced". In this respect the remarks of the original poster are somewhat disingenuous.

One of the beauties of the Dolomite range of cars is that, at most given price points (except the very top and very bottom), there is a choice of models available to the buyer, each with its own attractions. The fact that prices for the range generally are on a gentle upwards curve I also consider to be a good thing, as it encourages preservation rather than scrapping.

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2021 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE PHEV
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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:10 pm 
Very good points made there.....


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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Posts: 1549
Quote:
The simple answer is that there is no simple answer. The various classic car price guides are exactly that - a guide. Some trend patterns in classic car prices can be determined from monitoring the values that particular models sell for at auction, but that is about it.

Value derives from three things - condition, rarity, and appeal. The first two of these are pretty measurable, the third is entirely subjective. Mini's, Moggie Minors, Escorts, MGB's etc all have "appeal". Austin Allegro's do not - though there are folk that love them and will not hear a word against them. Nevertheless, they are not a "popular" classic.

Dolomites fit somewhere in the middle. They are a classic that is steadily and slowly gaining in appeal. This is for a number of reasons as I see it. Firstly, there is a general renaissance in 1970's stuff from clothes to cars to Ski yoghurt pots. This has been partly fuelled by the popularity of TV series such as Life on Mars that have highlighted all over again the attractions of this era. Secondly, the Triumph marque in general has bloomed in popularity and Dolomites are no longer overlooked so much in the shadows of the sexier sports car models. Thirdly, the number of Dolomites being restored or refreshed into really first class examples has increased greatly in the last ten years, and the efforts of those folk who have undertaken such work is rubbing off in the form of increased general enthusiasm for the cars, and thereby value.

Thus it is to me perfectly plausible that a first class 1300 with an interesting history could be worth £2.5-3K, while a scrappy Sprint struggles to make £500. This has nothing to do with making money, or the ability to make money. Generally, yes, the value curve goes upwards as you move up the range - so the Sprint is the highest and the 1300 the lowest, but condition is the arbiter here. Someone with £2500 to spend has a diverse choice in the Dolomite range - from a concours 1300, via a very good 1500, a nice 1850 to a decent workaday Sprint. Which of those they select is down to individual choice - it does not mean the 1300 is "overpriced", any more than the Sprint is "underpriced". In this respect the remarks of the original poster are somewhat disingenuous.

One of the beauties of the Dolomite range of cars is that, at most given price points (except the very top and very bottom), there is a choice of models available to the buyer, each with its own attractions. The fact that prices for the range generally are on a gentle upwards curve I also consider to be a good thing, as it encourages preservation rather than scrapping.
Yes, but there is a natural ceiling. If you start asking the sort of money for your 1300, that would buy a good triumph 2000, a Rover P5, or even start moving into Stag, TR6 territory. Then most people are going to think, well I might as well get the more desirable glamorous car.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Quote:
There are simply too few Dolomites offered for sale to form any sort of realistic price guide.
It is unlikely that two of identical condition will appear for sale, never mind several.
Each should be looked at as a one-off.



"I don't think talking down values is helpful. It just encourages people to buy them for peanuts and then run them on a shoestring."
The simple truth is that you can run a Dolomite (as well as many many other older cars) as an everyday car for a fraction of
what the average motorist pays. Not everyone is in the luxurious position of having money to burn.
There should be a place for all enthusiasts, rich or poor.




Ian.
I sell things on ebay, bit of a hobby, but I make a little money. Most of what I sell is rare, there is no point selling anything else on that site. That makes pricing difficult. My method is to start high, then if doesn't sell, lower the price. Eventually you hit a sweat spot and it will sell. That is how you price any rare item, the market decides, and if itsn't selling, the demand isn't there.


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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Quote:
I don't think talking down values is helpful. It just encourages people to buy them for peanuts and then run them on a shoestring. Over time this depletes the pool of available cars as no one wants to spend decent wedge on restoration.

Cars are only worth as much as someone wants to pay for them. If someone wants to pay £3k for a 1300 then good on them, most 1300/1500's are probably in better condition than most ratty Sprints!
I can understand the fear that banger racers might destroy them or they could be run into the ground for the cheap insurance. However I think there is room for more than one sort of classic. Perfect pampered concourse cars are all very well, I have admired a few, but there is also something to be said for the car that gets regular use, that does what it was made for. Even if the chrome is a bit tarnished, or the interior tired.

It is also possible to maintain a car to a high standard with a small budget. The most I've ever spent on parts is £50, normally far less than that. Yet I have a 20 year old car with no mechanical problems, and solid body work. The budget buyer may well put the effort in to maintain the car, while your mint car could be bought by someone with no mechanicals knowledge. and run into the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:46 pm 
Bottom line is, if it's worth the money to someone because they believe it's a good example, they are going to pay the money for it and let them, fair play i say.......
It's no although these cars are your old everyday cars that died a death and were all destined for the Metal yard, people still want these cars and are willing to pay the money for them.


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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:27 pm 
on the subject of overpriced!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTIN-ROVER- ... 1e75880b29


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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Quote:
One of my neighbours had one just like this but in red.
Owned from new, garaged for its entire 22,000 mile life and in pristine condition, he weighed it in during the scrappage scheme against a Chevvy Matiz!
I could've killed him!
Not that I'm any great lover of Maestros but the car was a time warp job and surely deseved better than that!

Steve

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'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:49 pm 
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£2.5K, well it has never been smoked in :D

It is interesting the values we give cars, because objectively a Maestro is a generation ahead of a Dolomite, but it is far less desirable.

The Dolomite is one of the last real Triumphs, that has some of Triumphs sports car DNA in its makeup, and in the Sprint, a genuine world class car in its day.

The poor old Maestro was dated before it was even launched, and was symbolic of the low point in the British motor industry. When everything was in decline, and our cars were either third rate, or re-badged Hondas. Why anyone would want one is beyond me.


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 Post subject: Re: overpriced cars.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:49 pm 
Quote:
Quote:
£2.5K, well it has never been smoked in :D

It is interesting the values we give cars, because objectively a Maestro is a generation ahead of a Dolomite, but it is far less desirable.

The Dolomite is one of the last real Triumphs, that has some of Triumphs sports car DNA in its makeup, and in the Sprint, a genuine world class car in its day.

The poor old Maestro was dated before it was even launched, and was symbolic of the low point in the British motor industry. When everything was in decline, and our cars were either third rate, or re-badged Hondas. Why anyone would want one is beyond me.


You have answered it yourself by describing what the Dolomite consists of in it's make up - Worth the money :wink:


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