The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

£50?
You cannot properly service any 20 year old car for £50 worth of parts.






Ian.

_________________
TDC Forum moderator
PLEASE help us to maintain a friendly forum,
either PM or use Report Post if you see anything you are unhappy with. Thanks.

If you want to spanner every Saturday for a trip on Sunday you have an average of 50gbp x 52weeks = 2600gbp a year.

But that's a hight RSI. Rij Sleutel Index (Drive Spanner Index)

Jeroen

_________________
Classic Kabelboom Company. For all your wiring needs. http://www.classickabelboomcompany.com

Oh, but you can. Standard service items for a xantia aren't expensive. Suspension sphers £25 a corner (bit naughty, should have replaced all four, but did front and back seperately). Brake pads and even discs can be got for less than £50. Cam belt and auxillary drive belt all less than £50. Even a kit to replace a suspension baring at the back was uner £40.

So how do you get the big ticket items cheap? Scrap yards and luck. We needed a new door, trip to the scrap yard, right colour, £40. Replacement brake calipar, strip it off a crap car, £20. Even managed to get a new suspension pump for £25 (it had the worng pulley, but easy to switch).

The only big bill I've had in the last 4 years was for a hydralic regulator, £125. Your right, if I did all the jobs in one go, then it would be more, but I tend to do things little and often. Still if your car is common enough, you do the work yourself, use scrap parts and shop arround. You can do things surprisingly cheap.

Which you can't do with a Dolly, they're not exactly common.
I'm still confused by this thread, I don't know what you hoped to achieve by it, it just seems like an attack on the smaller engined cars in our range.

_________________
1978 Sandglow Dolomite 1850HL The Lolomite - MOT pass! (broken again in 55 miles though...)
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.

"Yes, but there is a natural ceiling. If you start asking the sort of money for your 1300, that would buy a good triumph 2000, a Rover P5, or even start moving into Stag, TR6 territory. Then most people are going to think, well I might as well get the more desirable glamorous car."

I can't think of anyone on here who bought a dolomite because they couldn't afford a better model or brand. I bought my quite ratty 1500 cos I love the shape. I've speant around 2 and a half to 3 grand and I'm nowhere near finished. Some of my mates tell me I'm mad. I tell them I don't care. I do it because I love the car! At the end of all my work it will still only be worth around 1500. But I'm not doing it to sell so that doesn't matter. I do it because it's mine and I want to:)

If they are too expensive for you go buy a micra.

How is it an attack? I rather like the 1300, it makes a good B road car for the weekends. Frankly with modern raods full of speed camera ect, a small engine car in which you can have fun at non licence destroying speeds is appealing.

I wanted to discuss values of cars from the perpective of someone looking to buy. Now a 1300 is fun, but it should be an entry level car for new buyers. When people try to sell them for similar prices to 1850 or even Sprints, then something is up.

I also wanted to challenge a justification I've have seen for some of these prices. I spent xxx doing up the car, therefore I should be able to charge xxxx+yyyy. The car market doesn't work that way, a car is worth what buyers will pay for a car in that condition.

In the car ads I have seen some are snapped up quickly, some take a bit longer, the cars I originally wrote this thread about are the ones you see month after month and never seem to sell.

Every car buying decision is a combination of the heart and head. With classic cars there is alot of heart involved, otherwise as you said, you would buy a Micra. However a bit of cold rational calculation comes into play. An E-type Jag would be a wonderful car, but could I afford to insure, maintain it properley and even buy one. No.

So I am looking at entry level classics like the MGB GT, a Rover P6, one of the smaller sports car, but the one I really like is the Dolomite. However if values get too high, then I will look at something else. That is what sets the ceiling on any type of car. In the same way that an MGB will never be worth as much as an Aston or an E-type. That isn't to insult the cars, just a statement of commonsense.

That is a weak answer. It is hardly a "high standard"? By the way, that is actually £450 in parts, seeing as
(25x4)+50+50+40+40+20+25+125=450.

You can buy things like ARB drop links for a fraction of the Citroen price, but given that you'll be replacing the cheap replacement in
a short time, which is cost effective?
They Citroens (& French cars in general) are a nightmare to try and get the correct parts for, even using the chassis number,
because there are so many options.
I maintain one for a friend who says he'll run it 'til it dies. It needed very little for the last MOT but was still way over £50 in parts.
Their only good point is the incredible low prices I suppose, eg £150 with a full MOT (which in itself is £54).




Ian.

_________________
TDC Forum moderator
PLEASE help us to maintain a friendly forum,
either PM or use Report Post if you see anything you are unhappy with. Thanks.

That is a weak answer. It is hardly a "high standard"? By the way, that is actually £450 in parts, seeing as
(25x4)+50+50+40+40+20+25+125=450.

You can buy things like ARB drop links for a fraction of the Citroen price, but given that you'll be replacing the cheap replacement in
a short time, which is cost effective?
They Citroens (& French cars in general) are a nightmare to try and get the correct parts for, even using the chassis number,
because there are so many options.
I maintain one for a friend who says he'll run it 'til it dies. It needed very little for the last MOT but was still way over £50 in parts.
Their only good point is the incredible low prices I suppose, eg £150 with a full MOT (which in itself is £54).




Ian.[/quote]

Well yes I said I never spent more than £50 on parts, I didn't say over a year. To be fair all that work wasn't done this year. Generally it requires a new trackrod end, bulbs, horn, pads to pass the MOT, nothing too difficult. Occassional big job, failed suspension bearing, suspension pump blew up (fun job that one, you can't actually get a jack under a mark one Xantia when the hydraulics are broken).

Oh I wouldn't run one as a banger given the choice, they are complicated beasts, but I got it free.

As for dealers, never buy parts from them, I don't believe that they are higher quality, and prices they charge are a nightmare. Simple service items shop around, expensive bits down the scrap yard. Not exactly a dream car, but it is comfortable, it will do 45mpg and the engine is virtually indestructable (provided the head gasket doesn't go). It is a b****r to work though.

Not really the case.

The cars are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. Besides, I doubt there would be more survivors if they were much more expensive, with the smaller engined models I'd imagine you'd end up with a Ford Escort situation where most survivors end up as Sprints.

Besides, the reason so many Escorts, Morris Minors, Beetles and Minis survived is because they were cheap, bought by retirees who cherished them or kept on the road by students and enthusiasts. It wasn't until the late 90s values suddenly shot up as they became desirable enough for people to spend vast sums of money restoring. Think about how many tidy 2-door Escorts 1300s have been gutted in recent years to be rally replicas.

Comparing the decline in Escort 1300s (mk1 and 2) and Dolly 1300s the rate of scrapage actually works out in the cheaper, less desirable Dolomite's favour!

I mean, this is worth more than my MOT'd, roadworthy*, solid car, which by Dolly standards wasn't cheap. It'd be great for current owners for their cars to rapidly appreciate, but how many would have bought and saved them if they cost as much as an Escort in the first place?



*Well, it was when I bought it...

_________________
1976 Triumph Dolomite 1850HL "Trevor, the Tenaciously Terrible Triumph" - Rotten as a pear and dissolving into a field in rural Aberdeenshire.
1977 Triumph Dolomite 1300 "Daisy, the Dilapidated Dolomite of Disaster" - Major resto, planned for completion 2021.
1983 Triumph Acclaim L "Angus, the Arguably Adequate Acclaim - On the road as a daily driver.

For a Citroen, you are wrong on the former and correct on the latter.
Indeed from the motor factors you have a choice of brand too. It is well worth the extra for Delphi parts if you intend running the car.....







Ian.

_________________
TDC Forum moderator
PLEASE help us to maintain a friendly forum,
either PM or use Report Post if you see anything you are unhappy with. Thanks.

I wholeheartedly agree.

No, that isn't an objective statement, it is your subjective opinion. For those who like Maestros, buying an 'old crock' like a Dolomite would likely be a complete anathema. My late Father's penultimate car was a Montego, it served them well for 18 years but simply became unreliable to the point at the age of 81 he needed to change his car. For familiarity reasons he would dearly have liked to have replaced it with the same, but I couldn't find anything suitable; had the equivalent of that Maestro turned up it would have been bought.

Moving back to the topic, no two Dolomites are the same. I would happily pay very good money for one with good bodywork and tired mechanicals, or one with photographic evidence of recent high quality body rebuild because I am well aware of what bodywork repairs are available and the limitations of my skills; others with good bodywork skills will buy cars that I simply pass by.

Not only are cars worth what someone is willing to pay, but they are sometimes priced at levels that the owner would be willing to part with them. In the case of the latter, they are not 'over priced', they are simply out of your budget and I doubt the owner would be ashamed to 'have' to keep it if it doesn't sell. Similarly at an autojumble, at the end of the day there is always some chancer who will come up to me and make a ridiculous offer for a rare panel with the justification that 'I won't want to take it home'...er, yes I will, and I'll be quite happy, thank you.

Moaning about it and trying to justify a market from your standpoint will not prevent it happening.

I wince when I see a Dolly change hands too cheaply, as I fear it is going to its last home. I frequently push bids up on ebay to keep prices higher; I'm quite good at it and rarely do I have to go fetch, if I do, its no great shake!

I'm not sure your last point is fair, many people with limited budgets have done excellent restorations. I have a limited budget, but I have no intention of letting the car rot. I am going to do the work myself, but that for me is part of the fun of it. I want to drive, but I also want to learn new skills, and improve things (even thinking of getting a welder).

As for prices, you can't get sentimental, if you want to sell. The price is set by what people are willing to pay. Now I have been looking at old cars for a whiled, not just Dollys and have noticed three kinds of ads:

1)underpriced-These disapear in an instant, seller could have got more.
2)About right-You see these for a month or two, then they go.
3)Ambitious- These cars are advertised over and over and never sell. Now sometimes that is condition, if your car has poor bodywork, you can't price it the same as a mint one. Wrong model, some cars are simply less desirable. Can be wrong transmission, wrong engine, even the wrong colour (last one sounds stupid, but alot of buyers will factor in a cost of a respray).

Now you are free to price at any level you like, but why bother if you have no chance of selling?

As for low values on ebay, that can be misleading. Many of the cars sold on there are really restoration projects that need alot of work. Low values save cars like that. Nobody will pay a grand for a car which will take thousands more to restore, if they can get a mint one for less.

Do not assume because a car is advertised that the owner is desperate to sell, or even wants to sell it.

Low prices don't save cars because the car immediately becomes worth what it cost. If the new owner suddenly realises they have bought more than they can cope with, or more commonly believes anyone can cope with then the loss associated with an aborted 'project' as they cut their losses and the car gets scrapped. There are several such incidences recorded with pictures amongst these pages...

I don't decry anyone on a limited budget, I've been there as a novice mechanic and student running a Sprint, in fact I doubt anyone with common sense has unlimited budget. I took my car to be serviced last week and there was one in the showroom that I wouldn't have minded swapping it for, but the screen price was £222,000. I didn't bleat that it was overpriced; it wasn't, but it was beyond my budget.