The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:50 am 
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Hi

Im as novice as they get but me and a friend are really interested in buying a Dolomite. We saw a 1300 for £900 but the advert anoyingly was 3 months old (and already sold) so after searching around found a 1850 HL (http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C696819#). It seemed great but when we checked the MOT history online it was a nightmare! Of the ten tests it took after 2006 it failed 6, it passed a test in April 2015 but then took another one in November of the same year (?) and failed, from what I think is a major problem.

Reason(s) for failure
Windscreen washer provides insufficient washer liquid (8.2.3)
nearside Headlamp aim too low (1.8)
offside rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area is excessively corroded jacking point (2.4.A.3)
offside Steering rack gaiter split (2.2.D.2d)
nearside Front wheel bearing has excessive play (2.5.A.3c)

also

Advisory notice item(s)
offside Front wheel bearing has slight play (2.5.A.3c)
nearside front Brake pipe slightly corroded (3.6.B.2c)
offside front Brake pipe slightly corroded (3.6.B.2c)
Steering system has slight free play detected at steering wheel (2.2.A.1b)
all indicators flashing slightly slow

It passed a test on the 20th of April so I guess by default it still has an MOT till April 2016. I am going to see the car on Saturday (5 days time), would you guys suggest I buy this car and if yes what should I look out for? My main concern was the jacking points, it seems an expensive fix but also a safety concern. We're both students so don't have a garage/time/knowledge to do any repairs ourselves and were kinda hoping this could be be an interesting but reasonably cost efficient first car. The cars priced at £1500 ono and the insurance for us was £600 so it seemed on par with a more modern car, could the issues be sorted for less than £500 (our max budget was £2300)?

it was a bit of a ramble but if you do read through any advice would be greatly apreciated.

Cheers


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:00 am 
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Welcome to the forum. Condition is paramount with these cars especially with the bodywork. I'd sooner be dealing with mechanical problems than rust. If there is just that one area of corrosion then it might be worth biting the bullet and getting it repaired. If you can, take somebody knowledgable with you when you go to view the car. You've come to the best place for help and advice so keep those questions coming.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the 1st Wednesday of every month at The Hollies Sports & Social Club, 12 Hough Lane, Bramley, Leeds, LS13 3NE
1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - The rolling restoration)
2008 Citroën C4 Grand Picasso 2.0 HDi Exclusive (MA08 WCL - the modern)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com

"I can help you stop smoking in bed. Buy a water bed and fill it with petrol." - Bob Monkhouse OBE (1928-2003)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:03 pm 
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The second MOT test will nullify the first so this car DOES NOT have an MOT pass and will be registered as a failure on the databases. This has always been the case if a retest is performed earlier than one month before the test date is due as indicated on the certificate. The rules have now been tightened up and now if a car fails its test within this old grace period then the fail is registered, the car is considered dangerous and now cannot be used as previously up to its original test date.

Ask any MOT test centre and they will confirm this. Now it is suggested that if you are not sure if your car will pass its MOT ask if they will do a pre MOT check. This will tell you what it will fail on so you can fix it before the test. It is not registered so the existing MOT stands.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:25 pm 
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
With the exception of the corrosion, the other fails and advisories above are so minor as to be inconsequential. The rot factor IS important however and could be anything from a 1/4" diameter hole to half a sill box, without seeing, it's impossible to know!
If this car does not fit your bill, there is a very nice 1300 Toledo on preloved.com at the moment, a car I have personal experience of, having worked on it recently for its current owner and can recommend. Very sound, mostly original shell, good mechanicals, sweet running motor MoTd and less money than this 1850, the car is only let down by it's rattlecan paintjob.

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
Vermillion (and Rust) Sprint Auto EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 40 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:59 pm 
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Hi Everybody,

I can't thank you all enough for all the help, I didn't imagine I'd have this much advise so quickly. :) I'm going to see that car on Saturday and via email the guy promised me its road legal and got an MOT etc (I'm not so sure about that and Rob agrees with me on this). Ill look out for the jacking point when i look at the car and see how much rot there is, if i came back with some photos could any of you guys give me even the roughest estimate of the cost to fix it? I really don't want to buy into a car that needs major work to keep it going but if its a reasonably priced repair Id be happy to invest it in the car. On the note of the 1300 for sale unfortunately I study In Glasgow so couldn't really view the car, I live in Warwick usually so if was still for sale around febuary time I would be really interested to view it on my reading week.

Once again cheers for all this help :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:12 pm 
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PM sent.
That's a Private Message, click the link at the top of the page. :D

and another one!! :D :D


Last edited by GTS290N on Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:23 pm 
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Quote:
Ill look out for the jacking point when i look at the car and see how much rot there is, if i came back with some photos could any of you guys give me even the roughest estimate of the cost to fix it? I really don't want to buy into a car that needs major work to keep it going but if its a reasonably priced repair Id be happy to invest it in the car.
Give the sill a good knock with your knuckles (or some other non-denting implement) along its full length and listen to whether it sounds solid or whether there is the crusty crunchy noise of a thin panel with rust flaking off or rattling about inside. Do this on both sills, even the one that didn't have the jacking point fail.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:32 pm 
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You anywhere near Pembrokeshire?!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30312

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Current fleet: Triumph Dolomite Sprint '75, Daihatsu Fourtrak, Honda CG125, Yamaha Fazer 600, Shetland 570

Disposal fleet: Golf GTi 16v MK3 Anniversary, Tiger Avon (unbuilt)

Past fleet: Triumph 2000, Lancia Beta Coupe, BL Mini Clubman, Austin Metro, Vauxhall Cavalier MK1 & MK2, Renault 18 D, Rover 216 GSI, Honda Accord (most expensive car purchase, hated it on pickup from dealer, was made out of magnetic metal as only car I've ever been crashed into, 4 times), Golf GTi MK3 16v x 3


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:44 pm 
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I have done a little further checking and the dvla does record this car as having an mot valid to April. Having been advised in the recent past by testers that since the system was computerised any retest overrides the old test I rang the relevant department for clarity. They said that once an mot is issued it cannot be recsindered even if a further mot is carried out that registers a failure before the expiry date of the original. However the police may have other things to say and any insurance cover could be void if an unroadworthy vehicle is used on the road or is involved in an indecent.

So there is a loophole that can allow dangerous cars to look safe.

If you go ahead with this car you are well aware of its possible condition. You need to be certain that it is safe to be on the road so ask for proof that suitable repairs have been made and look for bodged repairs. This car is very cheap for one that has just had £3000 spent on it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:14 pm 
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I feel, as the owner of this car, it is time that I posted here to clarify some details.

Firstly, I've taken no offence from comments made so far - it's hard to take offence from a forum - but I do want to address a few details. I just registered with the club forum because I was considering keeping the car. I then spotted Alexander's post (recognised his name!) and had a look.

The car does have a current, valid, MOT. The reason it was put through an MOT in November is my friend whom I bought the car off, wanted to make sure it was worth spending the £3000 on, before spending it, because the engine had failed. The welding it requires is to repair a broadly 1 inch by 1 inch patch to the jacking point where the underseal has failed and allowed water in. I can assure you that I am not exploiting a loophole that can allow dangerous cars to look safe.

There are no proof of repairs as the repairs have not been done. They were not done because during the month long rebuild my friend replaced the car with an E30 BMW. As soon as the rebuild was complete he did not want to spend the extra to MOT the car given it was already replaced and had a current valid MOT.

The reasons the car is very cheap for one that has just had £3000 spent on it are:
1) I never spent £3000 on it
2) I had it up at £2250 (so it wasn't that cheap) - but dropped to £1500 as I've found something else I want (and I want the money to put into my other classic) it seems if the price is too high folk don't want it.... and if the price is a bit lower they get suspicious lol

As for the police & insurance cover, I couldn't comment as I do not work for either of them. However, the law states your car has to have a valid MOT, insurance, and tax to be on the road - which it has.

Hopefully this helps to clarify a few points. :bluewave:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:16 pm 
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Hi all, hope we are well. I've not been posting here of late as I have indeed sold the car but feel I need to step in here:

As you know I did indeed put the car through a £3000 engine rebuild, about halfway through though I lost heart in the car and bought another classic E30 325i, cars I'm familiar with and enjoy. The Dolomite wasn't for me (but had to now see the rebuild through). At the point of collection I asked the chap at the garage to have a look to see what would be needed come Mot renewal time in April (if it was going to cost just the price of the test I was just going to do it for the new owner). He told me and showed me the (frankly small) area of corrosion on the drivers side rear jacking point. I decided not to get the work done because frankly I'd spent enough on a car I was getting rid of, combined with the fact the chap that did the welding was now off on a fort nights holiday and I just wanted the car away to then be sold and not hanging about the garage for another 2 weeks. Being honest I didn't actually ask for it to be put through a full test (I didn't realise it had been until this evening reading this ) all I asked for was to let me know the obvious things. As soon as it was completed and back at the house I decided to sell the car as to be honest I just couldn't be bothered with it anymore and wanted it out of my sight. I didn't advertise the car and indeed sold it to my friend Alex above for a ridiculous loss to me of nearly thousands as I just wanted the car away and out of my sight. That's the reason it's for sale at the price it is because it's me that's lost a fortune and not Alex. Alex didn't spend the money on the car. The only reason Alex bought it from me was to help me out: he is not really into Dolomites and as such it's now for sale to concentrate on his classic Vauxhall.

I hope that puts any concerns surrounding the cars price to bed - anyone that buys it even at £1500 or whatever it sells for is getting a bargain as it does not even covers the cost of the parts I had replaced on the car. It's a unique car with its incredible amounts of history and now rebuild mechanicals, it now drives like it should. I wish the eventual new owner of the car all the very best with it.

Kind Regards

Russell

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Russell A Macfarlane
Dalgety Bay, Fife, Scotland
1973 (L) Triumph Dolomite 1850 Manual (Non OD), Old English White
2012 (12) Vauxhall Insignia 1800 Exclusiv, Manual (Non OD!!), Technical Grey


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:01 pm 
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Well if we'd have known it was your car Russel............

But when Alex first posted it could have been anything and I think we have done nothing but give sound advice to a newcomer, the same as we would for anyone else!

For Alex, Russels restoration thread for this car is in the restoration projects section of this forum under the title "My first Dolly - 1973 1850"

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
Vermillion (and Rust) Sprint Auto EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 40 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:51 am 
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Quote:
Well if we'd have known it was your car Russel............

But when Alex first posted it could have been anything and I think we have done nothing but give sound advice to a newcomer, the same as we would for anyone else!

For Alex, Russels restoration thread for this car is in the restoration projects section of this forum under the title "My first Dolly - 1973 1850"

Steve
Oh absolutely Steve I agree it's valuable for newcomers and your helps not in question :-) Just thought I'd add my two pence worth to make any potential new owner aware that it's a cracking buy for someone and hopefully alleviate any concerns surrounding the car: it's also had a full service with every fluid replaced (including gearbox and back axle) as well as 4x new tyres- the car drives very well indeed , everything works, and it is perfectly safe. The garage showed me underneath the car on the inspection ramp and it all looks very good aside from that small area of localised corrosion, which being realistic about it, you'd expect of a 43 year old car that's never been fully restored before: it's lasted surprisingly well. As I say, I wish any new owner all the very best with it. For me I'm off back to the land of classic BMW's (that I've always had in the past pre Dolomite whim) to enjoy its sports suspension, electronic ignition and fuel injection!! A "chalk it up to experience moment" where one should stick to what they know and enjoy. Take care all and many thanks for all your help and kindness along the way.

Kind Regards

Russell.

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Russell A Macfarlane
Dalgety Bay, Fife, Scotland
1973 (L) Triumph Dolomite 1850 Manual (Non OD), Old English White
2012 (12) Vauxhall Insignia 1800 Exclusiv, Manual (Non OD!!), Technical Grey


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:49 am 
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I didn't realize it was your car Russell (I've only just seen the advert and I'm surprised nobody realized it was your car). It is a real shame you lost your "mojo" but that's how it goes. I hope the potential buyer does take it on now that you and Alex have come forward with your comments. You did the right thing in seeing the rebuild through despite your feelings. I'm at the point where I'm chasing down the last few minor faults on mine and making a start on the "wish list".

All the best with your E30.

_________________
Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the 1st Wednesday of every month at The Hollies Sports & Social Club, 12 Hough Lane, Bramley, Leeds, LS13 3NE
1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - The rolling restoration)
2008 Citroën C4 Grand Picasso 2.0 HDi Exclusive (MA08 WCL - the modern)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com

"I can help you stop smoking in bed. Buy a water bed and fill it with petrol." - Bob Monkhouse OBE (1928-2003)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:55 am 
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I hope the seller and Russell do not take my comments as an affront to them. My only concerns were for offering good advice to Alex after he posted about the MOT fail.

As for the police & insurance cover, I couldn't comment as I do not work for either of them. However, the law states your car has to have a valid MOT, insurance, and tax to be on the road - which it has.

The comments I made regarding this were those quoted to me by the MOT regulating department. Whether an MOT is valid or not it is an offence to drive any vehicle on the road that is in a dangerous condition. This car has been registered on a public database that it is not in a safe enough condition to pass an MOT for 5 reasons including the welding. It therefore would be picked up by any police force and insurance company who would have interest in it and regardless of how little work is required to fix come to the conclusion that it is likely to be un-roadworthy, especially as the repairs have not been made. Potential big fines and no insurance.

This car looks to be a bargain now we know more about it, but the buyer needs to be aware of the potential pit falls of using this car before the failure faults are rectified.


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