The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:27 am 
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I can't do any bodywork at the moment and I want to make some space in the workshop so I'm going to reassemble the engine and overhaul the gearbox. Then they can both be wrapped up and go into storage to get them out of the way.

Plus it'll give me something to do in the evenings when I'm bored!

Jeroen, you put ARP studs and rod bolts in your 1850 when you were rebuilding it. Given what I have done to the engine with the balancing etc is it worth me doing the same?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:05 pm 
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I used new rods and these came with new bolts and nuts but they are original, not ARP. If you want to use ARP bolts on the rods then you might find it tricky to fit them. Chances are your rods have only been tightened once when the engine was built. I know mine for sure had been used at least twice, once when new and once when the big end bearings were changed. I therefore figured I'd be happy not using them again. The cost of a set of new rods c/w the bolts and nuts was cheaper than buying a set of ARP bolts alone.

I plan to use new head studs rather than re-use my old ones as I'm unsure of how many times they've been used and stretched. They aren't a 'proper' stretch bolt like you get on some modern engines. For example K series engine studs are use once then bin. I'm not sure I trust the repro studs, though that said I cannot see ARP listing the studs for the Sprint. I would be interested in a set if they do exist. I assume they are different from the TR7 which they do list.

In extremes of performance I'd want to use ARP bolts and studs as they are a known and very high quality but depending on how you plan to use the car then you may find original parts absolutely fine. If you're running your engine flat out all the time then the forces generated will be much higher than a road car, especially if it has significantly more power than standard.

For example we build various engines at work with more than twice the power of standard. The rebuilds are expensive and so you want to minimise the risk of damage by fitting good quality studs and bolts etc. That said even in racing engines we hardly ever see situations where the rod or main cap bolt has given up and broken, ARP fitted or not. All the engines we build here are fitted with ARP but they are 90% race engines. I'm not an engine builder by trade but have a good idea of what goes on in the workshop from speaking to my colleagues and looking at the dismantled engines lying around.

ARP bolts, nuts and studs etc. will not on their own give your engine more power, though they may aid reliability if you do want significantly more power. I would say they would be a questionable fit on a standard or even a fast road car, though as I say I would prefer to use their head studs if they are available because I don't know the history of my existing ones.

Your engine your choice though!

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1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
2009 Mazda MX5 2.0 Sport
2018 Infiniti Q30


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Head bolts and studs I would use used standard ones. Checking the re-torque will tell you if they move much more each time. If after 2 retorques (3 in total including the original toque) they keep moving you could then decide to change for new by removing one at a time.

If you use ARP rod studs and nuts you may want to check the concentricity of the big end bore when they are torqued up as it may be a higher value and the rods originally would be finish honed whilst torqued up. Re-check rod weights but I'd imagine they wont vary much.

Tony

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:29 pm 
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Bolts and studs for the critical parts i like to replace by new and when then i use ARP. The old ones are old and history unknown. The head is not a very critical part but I run my engines at a high compression ratio as possible because the fuel I use has 108 octane and like to have it torqued ok. I only retorque once after the first heat up and cool down and that's it.

For the main bearings I experienced some problems. As the studs are slightly thicker than std the holes in the mainbearing caps have to be drilled somewhat larger. There are some pictures in a post.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28355&start=30

The block part where the main bearing bolts are in is the weakest part of the engine. When torgueing the best is to torque a nut on a stud than a bolt into the weakest part.

Used rod bolts i replace and when using new rods i use the new original ones already fitted.

Jeroen

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Thanks Mark and Tony, I know they wont give more power but I am trying to build the engine as it was intended so this is something I was interested in.
Quote:
For the main bearings I experienced some problems. As the studs are slightly thicker than std the holes in the mainbearing caps have to be drilled somewhat larger. There are some pictures in a post.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=28355&start=30
Thanks Jeroen, yes, thats the thread I have been following and was referring to.

I will go ARP for the reasons that you mentioned, not the head though, I don't think they do them for a Sprint head anyway.

Can I double check the ARP part numbers with you?
Rods - 206-6006
Block studs - 206-5404

Ta


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:50 am 
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Just read the complete thread - what a build so far, encredible!!!!!

Always being a Ford man and seen many MK1/2 & 3 builds and a few builds of my own with 1 full resto of a Landy 90, it's great to see a Sprint concours build.

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1980 (W) Triumph Dolomite Sprint, Auto, White, 52k miles - ownership by 2 family members since new.

Reg No: RNK 957W

Supplied by Jimmy Metcalfe at Lavender Hill Motors Ltd, Enfield on 30th September 1980


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:02 am 
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Thanks Murdo, I need to get back on it this year really.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:29 am 
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Thanks Murdo, I need to get back on it this year really.
I thought you were saving the work as a retirement hobby :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks Murdo, I need to get back on it this year really.
I thought you were saving the work as a retirement hobby :lol:


I want to get mine done BEFORE I retire (2 years 4 months, 13 days 1 hour 29 minutes and counting......)

I think James has a bit longer to go..........

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:05 am 
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Some consider me already retired! :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:26 am 
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Hi James

Im half way through reading your restoration story, (Im actually taking notes!!!) I've completed various levels of restoration on a few cars before - Imps - both sunbeam and Hillman and some bits of my stag - but not to the level you have achieved with your car.

Its seems like one of your best tricks is just being methodical and clean and tidy!

Are there any 'lessons learnt' from this car? things you'd do differently?

What tools and equipment do you need to do this level of restoration and what did you outsource? I see you have a little parts cleaner and a sand blaster?

How did you determine which bits to do in which order?

The Toledo Im about to start on has been sitting in a dry shed for a long time and Im thinking Ill start on the front suspension and subframe (bushes etc) first as (a) it dosent have the engine and gearbox in it at present and (b) I have experience doing this on my stag. The vendor tells me the car has no rust in it but Im taking that with a grain of salt ! (Pictures on my page)


Any other insights or advice would be much appreciated

Cheers

Alastair

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:28 am 
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Hi Alastair, apologies for the delayed reply.

Thanks! Yes, having a clean and tidy workshop and everything in it's right place makes any work much more pleasurable and relaxing! Someone said to me once that if it takes you more than five minutes to find the tool that you need then your workshop needs tidying!

I have a small sandblaster which is ok for small parts such as carb linkages and bodies but for anything bigger it is easier to just have whoever you use to plate or coat them do it. I always supply parts super clean, my plater and powder coater love that. It means that their blasters don't get full of crud!

I have a lot of lessons learn't, don't be afraid to make a mistake it's the only way to learn. When it comes to reassembly a lot of parts will probably be re-done just because I have even higher standards now! I can't really describe the level of detail that I have, I took a lot of inspiration from Mad Mart, Mike Barker (Mikeyb) and Mark Gibson's (SprintMWU773V) builds and I look at everything I do rather critically. It can be quite exhausting which is why I took a break from it!! Hopefully next year I'll send off the shell for blasting so I can do the welding on it then get it painted.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:26 pm 
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Quote:
Someone said to me once that if it takes you more than five minutes to find the tool that you need then your workshop needs tidying!
What I actually said was "Steve's rule number 2"

Which states that, "If you spend more time looking for a tool than you do using it, it's time you tidied your tools up!"

Looking at the state of my workshop as I left it to go on my holidays last week, I think I need to add a new rule, "pay attention to all the other rules!!!!"

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:30 am 
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Nothing wrong with taking a break from a project, you've got to enjoy doing it!

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1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
2009 Mazda MX5 2.0 Sport
2018 Infiniti Q30


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:22 pm 
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I collected the plated parts today...

Image
Excellent thread James, I am in awe. Can you please tell me where you got this plating done? Is it zinc passivate as suggested in another post in this thread?

It's inspired me to start a restoration thread for my Toledo, although clearly I have my work cut out :)


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