The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:16 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:47 pm 
Offline
TDC Oxfordshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:32 pm
Posts: 470
Hello all.

My car has always suffered from fuel vapourisation in hot weather (1500). I know it is common as Richard Old's cars also suffer with the same symptoms and we are often together when it happens!

Has anyone found any benefit with some of the 'heat resistant' wraps/tape that are on the market?

Modern fuels don't help granted, but it would be nice to improve matters if anyone has had any success?

Kind Regards

MC

_________________
Matt Cotton

TDC Oxfordshire Area Organiser.
TDC/TSSC group meeting - 3rd Tuesday of the month
The Duke at Clifton - OX15 0PE

1980 1500HL - OPD
1976 Sprint - SWU


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:29 pm 
Offline
TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7014
Location: Highley, Shropshire
You can get a stainless steel heatshield for 1500 Spitfire from a number of sources. Goes between carbs and manifold. It's also a good idea to reinstate the cold air induction pipes from the air filter that are nearly always missing! And a bad idea to fit aftermarket air filters or trumpets that draw air from under the bonnet, rather than the great outdoors.

The culprit is entirely down to modern ethanol added fuel, which doesn't react well to carbs and high underbonnet temperatures.

A quick and effective trick is to pull the bonnet release when sat in traffic as this lets the hot air escape and the fan can push more cold air through. A more permanent and elegant solution is to get some louvres cut in the bonnet above the carbs, it ain't cheap though and the bonnet will need repainting afterwards!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:11 am 
Offline
TDC Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:29 pm
Posts: 2403
Location: Bromley, Kent
Matt,

Another vote here for the Spitfire heat shield as mentioned by Steve. Incidentally, the rather bling highly polished ones sold by certain sellers on ebay are actually nowhere near as effective as the original BL type, which has a sort of (I assume) asbestos sandwich material on the side facing the exhaust manifold.

I have the same problem with my Healey and wrapping the manifold made a tiny difference (and I already have a louvred bonnet)!

I would go with the heat shield first. Popping the bonnet on the catch in extreme situations is also very effective.

_________________
Martin.

2021 Land Rover Discovery Sport HSE PHEV
2021 Dacia Duster 1.3 TCe
1963 Austin A40 Rally Car
2021 Honda Cross Tourer Highlander


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:51 am 
Offline
TDC West Mids Area Organiser
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:13 pm
Posts: 13317
Location: Over here...can't you see me?
Vermiculite board would be a good substitute for the OE, if you can get it thin enough without its brittleness causing problems, particularly if you faced it with aluminium foil glued to the manifold side. The OE was brittle itself and if they still exist are generally in at least two halves...I have a pair somewhere if you'd like a pattern?

The original insulated against radiation, conduction and convection, but as a particularly good conductor of heat, the aluminium on its own, once it is warm itself, fails on one fundamentally and a second partially.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:58 am 
Offline
TDC Staffs Area Organiser
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:08 pm
Posts: 5429
Location: The Old Asylum
You could add some aluminium heat shielding to the back of your flat heat shield. The material encourages air flow and heat transfer as is very effective. This would give you the look as well as making a difference.

The material in question is called Nimbus heat shield and you can buy it from numerous places including Demon Tweeks. Though it may be called something else from other suppliers. It cuts and bends really easily and can easily be attached to another flat piece with rivets or even small nuts and bolts.

_________________
Mark

1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
2009 Mazda MX5 2.0 Sport
2018 Infiniti Q30


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:12 pm 
Offline
TDC Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:59 am
Posts: 1502
Location: Coventry
Alternatively, electric fuel pump, which is the route I went down with KAC a number of years ago

_________________
BWJ
1966 Triumph 1300 Royal Blue
1966 Triumph 2000 Blue
1965 Triumph 2000 black and rust
1967 BSA B40wd green
2018 Jaguar E pace 2018
NOBODY expects the Canley Inquisition!


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:39 pm 
Offline
TDC Oxfordshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:32 pm
Posts: 470
Many thanks gents for the replies and some good advice there.

I will have a ponder on this one. My heatshield was replaced a few years ago, although isn't stainless steel. All the rest of the set up is original.

Regards

MC

_________________
Matt Cotton

TDC Oxfordshire Area Organiser.
TDC/TSSC group meeting - 3rd Tuesday of the month
The Duke at Clifton - OX15 0PE

1980 1500HL - OPD
1976 Sprint - SWU


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:22 am 
Offline
TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7014
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Alternatively, electric fuel pump, which is the route I went down with KAC a number of years ago
I wouldn't have thought an electric fuel pump would help much! I have this problem as a hardy (summer) perennial with a customers Rover V8 powered Stag - which has an electric pump as standard and a massive and correctly set Kenlowe as well as an uprated rad. The car keeps it's cool on the guage under all conditions but 5 mins in traffic has the engine spluttering like an apoplectic hippo and me reaching for the bonnet handle. It's entirely down to modern fuel which has a lower vaporisation temperature and the fact that, with a carburetted system, fuel actually sits in the carb float chambers long enough to get up to it's (reduced) evaporation temp. My customer flatly refuses the louvre option, somebody before his time has expended considerable time, effort and lateral thinking to get the Rover carbs under the stock bonnet and we are now investigating EFi as a permanent cure, which should be fairly easy with all the old EFi Range Rovers etc that are around!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:54 am 
Offline
TDC Member

Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:26 am
Posts: 2473
Some modern cars have fuel coolers fitted, not investigated where they are placed in the fuel system, but it means a real issues does exist.
Modern cars have a huge advantage in EFI,so the fuel never sits in one place, most fuel doing a circuit and returning to the tank. add to that it is sitting around 3bar pressure which will raise the boiling point by about 30 degrees should there be any localised hotspots (but I don't think the higher BP is requied, otherwise the fuel would vaporise after the PRV)

I have wondered if it is possible to set the carbs up to have a return fuel line. Probably more complicated than it sounds as you don't want to pressurise the float chamber at all, and you can't really use gravity for the return line. Not sure a suction pump would work either...

_________________
Clive Senior
Brighton


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:21 am 
Offline
TDC Staffs Area Organiser
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:08 pm
Posts: 5429
Location: The Old Asylum
Quote:
Some modern cars have fuel coolers fitted, not investigated where they are placed in the fuel system, but it means a real issues does exist.
Modern cars have a huge advantage in EFI,so the fuel never sits in one place, most fuel doing a circuit and returning to the tank. add to that it is sitting around 3bar pressure which will raise the boiling point by about 30 degrees should there be any localised hotspots (but I don't think the higher BP is requied, otherwise the fuel would vaporise after the PRV)

I have wondered if it is possible to set the carbs up to have a return fuel line. Probably more complicated than it sounds as you don't want to pressurise the float chamber at all, and you can't really use gravity for the return line. Not sure a suction pump would work either...
No this is far too much effort. I'd personally concentrate on reducing heat. The 1500 engine will always have the problem of having the inlet manifold right over the exhaust. If you can reduce the effect of heat soak on these areas it will help. You could zircotec the manifolds but this isn't cheap so I'd stick with better heat shielding and even go so far as to try and find fuel with a lower ethanol content, though this can be tricky.

_________________
Mark

1961 Chevrolet Corvair Greenbrier Sportswagon
1980 Dolomite Sprint project using brand new shell
2009 Mazda MX5 2.0 Sport
2018 Infiniti Q30


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:33 am 
There is an original type of shield here.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Spit ... xyuGFRztDW

Why not buy one of those and wrap the exhaust manifold.

Quick and cheap, should improve things even if it doesn't cure it completely.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:46 pm 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:52 pm
Posts: 7566
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
I was going to suggest getting the manifold coated with the Zircotec treatment or suchlike but Mark has confirmed that this would be costly. Is there a DIY version or could VHT paint be used instead? If this isn't feasible how about making a heat shield from the heat shield material that is fitted on modern cars?

_________________
Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Old Brickworks, Wakefield Road, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1EA

1972 Dolomite 1850 auto (NYE 751L - Now for sale)
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - another project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!

Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.

"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:51 pm 
Offline
Future Club member hopefully!
Future Club member hopefully!

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:50 pm
Posts: 567
Location: newton abbot, south devon
Look on page 19 of this month's magazine. I did a similar thing with aluminium as it dissipates heat quicker. I riveted a small bit of angle onto the flat bit that folds underneath my HIF38s, then a expansion spring and it's perfect. I can't post photos here but I'll put some on Fb.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:40 pm 
Offline
TDC Oxfordshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:32 pm
Posts: 470
Excellent Marco. It dropped through the door today, so I will settle down with a pint of Hobgoblin and have a read!

_________________
Matt Cotton

TDC Oxfordshire Area Organiser.
TDC/TSSC group meeting - 3rd Tuesday of the month
The Duke at Clifton - OX15 0PE

1980 1500HL - OPD
1976 Sprint - SWU


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:32 am 
Quote:
I was going to suggest getting the manifold coated with the Zircotec treatment or suchlike but Mark has confirmed that this would be costly. Is there a DIY version
Yes - heat wrap.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15M-TITANIUM ... 0005.m1851

Combine that with the heat shield as I suggested above all for less than 20 quid (just).


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing, djw113uk, Google and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited