The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:07 pm 
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Yes, sorry Graham; my earlier post was early and I wasn't quite awake.

When I was at university a lad in the year below has a Spitfire with a Sprint engine and he'd found a problem was the weight of the engine being offset to the nearside put a turning moment on the chassis and he struggled to overcome the consequences of that, to the extent he'd experimented with different spring rates each side of the front end; needless to say, it handled terribly!

579 is currently a rolling otherwise bare shell requiring bodywork welding and two doors and then paint, so I'm a long way off deciding that sort of detail other than collecting correct early parts as I find them. When I acquired the car it had headrest seats, later inertia reel belts and an 1850 engine, but the gearbox and axle numbers are both very close to 579 giving provenance to the car.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:25 pm 
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
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BTW, Alun, what are you doing with those belts off Steve, using them as static or swapping the buckle extensions onto some inertia reel belts? I'm wondering if there might be another option for the latter without unstitching the fixed end of the inertia reel belt.

Graham
There IS another option, the early Kangol "Reflex" Inertia reel belts. They aren't anywhere NEAR as common as the later Britax belts, but a lot of 73-75 Toledos seem to have them. You'd have to swap them entirely as the tongue buckle is different from the Kangol Static belts, even though the centre block LOOKS the same. The Carledo had them from the factory, a couple of years back, the passenger reel packed up and I couldn't seem to fix it, but I got another complete set from someone on the Toledo FB page for a mere £50. So somewhere in the depths of my garage is most of a set and a duff-ish reel that MIGHT be repairable by a pukka seat belt firm. I rarely throw this sort of thing away, it's just finding it again...... I'll take some comparison pics when I get a minute!

I love the Kangol belts (despite despising seat belts in general) they are much better made and more effective than the Britax ones in the way the mechanism works.

Steve

Off topic again, I specified The TR7 block, not so much for the block itself (though TR7 engines are much cheaper than Sprint ones, a bonus) as for what comes with it. The sump is a better shape for the Herald application, the bell housing adaptor gives a better angle for the 1850 gearbox and the mounts are also more compatible with the Herald. I also specified the late 1850 O/D gearbox because it HAD, by then, been improved in a number of ways and does stand a chance of withstanding Sprint power and torque. More importantly, it WILL go in the Herald chassis. It's effectively almost the same box as the TR7 4 speed but with overdrive that wasn't available on the TR7. I wouldn't use an LT77 if you paid me, It's a horrible, clunky, complex and expensive box with a vague and unpleasant but also obstructive shift. And it won't fit the chassis without serious work which contravenes the 8 point rule. Which I personally, will ALWAYS avoid! Same goes for the Sprint box, it's too wide and too long to go between the main rails where they taper down in the middle of the car.

It's worth bearing in mind that a Herald convertible is around 400 kg lighter than a Sprint. So you wouldn't NEED more than a stock Sprint's 127bhp to make it capable of leaving a 150+horse Sprint in your dust. And the load the Herald puts on the driveline components will be less than in a heavier car. I think it could work and be bl**dy good fun!

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:48 pm 
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Location: Harrow Middlesex
I once took a seat belt reel apart, the coil spring came out, try as i did couldn't get that reel back together, i now go to seat belt company to get belts re webbed

Dave


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 3:41 pm 
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Location: St Annes on Sea, Lancs.
I think I'm sticking with the idea of putting the extensions from the static belts onto the inertia reel sets. And since I already have enough sets, I'll use the Britax buckles and blocks.

To make what's in from the NVG sets of belts, I unstitched the fixed end of the inertia reel belts to slide the exertions on, then restitched by hand. It doesn't look that great, but no one is likely to look down there between the seat, the B post, and the reel, and I reckon the hand stitching is still strong enough. But, I think I want to be able to swap the extensions without the unstitching and restitching part of the process; considering that the reels do fail, but there are loads of available options for the inertia reel donors, like Securon - which have a lot more stitching than the Britax ones.

So, I'm thinking about some O shaped carabiners made of 8mm steel bar. Looking at what normally holds the extension on to the webbing, i.e. a 10 gauge steel plate, the bars of the carabiners have to be at least as strong - bearing in mind that the strain will not be along the threads of the carabiner's locking mechanism, but through the top and bottom of the O, with the pull of the webbing tending to bend the carabiner lock. I reckon the buckles will pull out of the block before that size carabiner will fail: having had one of the blocks apart, it looks the weakest part of the system to me; but maybe it's stronger than 50-year-old webbing. And with the lock screw inside the loop of the extension and a dab of black paint on the carabiners, I think they'll look okay as well.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:35 pm 
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Location: St Annes on Sea, Lancs.
The method using a carabiner does work, and a little research says its load capacity that way around is about twice the breaking strain required of the webbing of the day - though I think the requirements for webbing are a fair bit higher now. However, I decided there's a still better option.

The static belts come with an adjuster that joins two bits of webbing together. One bit has a sewn loop holding it to the adjuster and an eye to bolt to the attachment point on the inner sill behind the seat at the other end. The other bit is threaded over the locking bar inside the adjuster, with one side going through the plate at the end of the extension that goes to the buckle and then up to the top of the B post, and the end of the other side is more or less loose, just riveted into a plastic bit that holds it to the part of the belt that goes over the lap.

Image

The adjuster is shown left of the middle of the lower run of webbing in the above and has "RAISE TO ADJUST" on it. The static belt shown here seems to be a later one than that I've disassembled and shown later, as it has a more complicated plate at the belt end of the extension with two holes, where the older one has only one hole, like a Platypus.

So, I thought, I can replace the section in the static belt that is threaded through the adjuster and goes up to the top of the B post, with the webbing that comes from the inertia reel - having that run up to the hanger at the top of the B post as normal -, then down through the loop on the extension, and threaded through the adjuster from the static belt. All that needed was that I had to (again) unstitch the eye that bolts behind the inertia reel, so I can thread that end of the belt round the locking bar in the adjuster from the static belt. The bit of the static belt that's already stitched onto the adjuster then goes down to where it did on the sill, but now the inertia reel itself is bolted over it.

The only problem in that is that the eye on the end of the static belt that bolts to the sill is not quite the same as the equivalent one that normally fits behind the inertia reel - it's shorter and the hole is smaller. I could have unstitched the one that's on and restitched the belt over the longer, larger hole eye instead - and that's still an option. But rather than that, I decided to use a spare stand-off from the hanger at the top of the B post, and fit that between the inertia reel and the sill with the smaller hole, shorter eye on that. That stand-off is a little longer and thinner than the original, but as it's good enough at the hanger, I assume it should also be good enough at the back of the reel. And I could shorten it a little, till the eye is almost trapped by the carpet - they aren't that hard to find if I get that wrong. I haven't riveted the plastic bit on the end of the belt where the inertia reel belt eye was, but that't only cosmetic. Also, that end has been unstitched and restitched several times now, and its a bit tatty, so I'm thinking of trimming the tatty part off. But then, this is the worst of all the belts and extension bits I have, used just as a proof of concept.

So now I could fit any suitable inertia reel, i.e. that bolts that way up on the sill and has the right width webbing, joined to the lower part of the static belt. That should include modern Securon belts, for example.

The issue for those very concerned with originality is that, as well as it not being the original coarse webbing MikeyB described, there is the adjuster at the driver's right hip that serves no purpose - other than it joins the webbing with an "approved" sticker on it, though one from when God were a lad - and the plastic bit tying off the free end.


Image

That one is with up on the left if it matters.

Image

Image

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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