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Pirelli tyre fail
http://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=32855		 Page 3 of 5
Author:  Dougal Cawley [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Quote:
Cant believe the air will stay in those tyres with those crap rims on them. Looks like a speedy tyre fit to promote yourself to me. Pics of your dads car please lol

Tony
Here is the beast in question https://www.facebook.com/Charlie.Martin ... 075242319/ this is it racing at Portimao. Well i say racing it managed testing, and then in qualifying i found some more revs which might have something to do with the head gasket giving way.

I friend of mine came into the shed a bit ago as he had stumbled across a haul of Dolly wheels. so i bought a hole heap. I now have a set with Michelin TB tyres on them https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/vintag ... tyres.html the grip is unbelievable, but they are a struggle to get the best out of, because they are over tyred really. Stopping amazing, less wheel spin, but when you lob it into a corner, it is a bit vigorous.

I have another set with Dunlop Racing tyres on. i took it to a testing day at Blyton, took of the radials and fitted the Skinny Dunlop crossply tyres and it was gorgeous, it felt fabulous to drive the handling was so light and progressive, but to be fair that is because there was very little grip. However i think these will be the best fun to drive on. I am hoping for a happy medium with the Pirelli, but importantly they should still be progressive because of the carcass shape, while at the same time give you a bit more confidence on fast roads. The Dunlop Racing is epic, but if you were going round a corner and then had to make more space for an on coming car it would be pretty scarey.

Here is the mighty Dolly having it's Dunlops fitted. I will post some pictures on the Cinturato when they are fitted. They should look great as i beleive they are original equipment (and they just look cool anyway)

Image
Author:  tony g [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Fair enough :)

Tony
Author:  Dougal Cawley [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Thanks for keeping an eye on me Tony :lol:

How about a safety film for a bit of fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxx1Zn- ... kh&index=4

I hope it's not too corporate and business like
Author:  naskeet [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Quote:
Cant believe the air will stay in those tyres with those crap rims on them. Looks like a speedy tyre fit to promote yourself to me. Pics of your dads car please lol

Tony
I used inner tubes with both the Cosmic and Dolomite Sprint 5½J x 13 inch alloy wheels, on my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 "HL".
Author:  Dougal Cawley [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Aha!

I made this film to demonstrate about tubeless wheels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWJ-tWP3iU0&t=205s

So yes i use tubes too.
Author:  Mahesh [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Interesting, been so busy looking at tyre information, neglected to even glance rim design types.
Author:  SprintMWU773V [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Isn't it illegal to fit tubes to a tubeless tyre, what with the effect it would have on the speed rating and all?
Author:  Dougal Cawley [ Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Quote:
Isn't it illegal to fit tubes to a tubeless tyre, what with the effect it would have on the speed rating and all?
Nope not if is a 70% profile or taller.

inner tubes can be fitted into 70%, 75% & full profile (80%) tyres weather it says tubeless or tube type on the side.

When it says tubeless that is simply specifying that you can run tubeless assuming you have a suitable wheel.

You should not fit inner tubes in 65% profile (or lower) tyres.

So you can fit an inner tube in any 155R13 or 175/70R13 tyre

You should not fit an inner tube into a 185/65R13 tyre

This film is a bit shonky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWJ-tWP3iU0&t=208s

but i hope it explains it. Personallly i don't want to run my Dads Dolomite without tubes because i think if you don't have the safety rib on your wheels bead seat you are better off with a tube.
Author:  Toledo Man [ Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Dougal, I didn't have any problems with tubeless tyres on Sprint Alloys aside from them losing pressure (just the nature of alloy wheels in general). That's why I went back to the correct 4.5J steelies. It also gives me more options for tyre widths so I could use the same size tyres as the Sprint if I wanted to.
Author:  Galileo [ Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Quote:
Thanks for keeping an eye on me Tony :lol:

How about a safety film for a bit of fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxx1Zn- ... kh&index=4

I hope it's not too corporate and business like
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  cliftyhanger [ Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Quote:
Personallly i don't want to run my Dads Dolomite without tubes because i think if you don't have the safety rib on your wheels bead seat you are better off with a tube.
Can you explain that?
My gut feeling is that tubes tend to deflate very quickly if punctured (which is why they were superseded by tubeless?) and I can't see how a deflated tube helps stop the tyre bead moving into the well of the rim. Or have I missed something?
Author:  Dougal Cawley [ Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Quote:
Quote:
Personallly i don't want to run my Dads Dolomite without tubes because i think if you don't have the safety rib on your wheels bead seat you are better off with a tube.
Can you explain that?
My gut feeling is that tubes tend to deflate very quickly if punctured (which is why they were superseded by tubeless?) and I can't see how a deflated tube helps stop the tyre bead moving into the well of the rim. Or have I missed something?
I think the thought is that when tyre pressures get a little low without the safety rib if the tyre is pushed off the bead seat just a little without a tube you loose everything. I think when i go trialing everyone uses a tube.

They did supersede the tube. And i have no doubt a tyre without a tube on a proper tubeless rim with a safety rib that is best. that is easy.

however if you have a rim that isn't really suitable to be tubeless then we feel you should put a tube in it.

i think that when tubeless tyres first came out they hadn't developed the safety rib. However they soon did develop it and from now on i think i'm right in saying they all have them.

I don't think a tube is a bad thing. And we recommend that when in doubt fit a tube. (thiis doubt applies to no safety rib. pourous old alloys and Mags. or just a manky rim that might not seal so well)
Author:  dollyman [ Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Personallly i don't want to run my Dads Dolomite without tubes because i think if you don't have the safety rib on your wheels bead seat you are better off with a tube.
Can you explain that?
My gut feeling is that tubes tend to deflate very quickly if punctured (which is why they were superseded by tubeless?) and I can't see how a deflated tube helps stop the tyre bead moving into the well of the rim. Or have I missed something?
I think the thought is that when tyre pressures get a little low without the safety rib if the tyre is pushed off the bead seat just a little without a tube you loose everything. I think when i go trialing everyone uses a tube.

They did supersede the tube. And i have no doubt a tyre without a tube on a proper tubeless rim with a safety rib that is best. that is easy.

however if you have a rim that isn't really suitable to be tubeless then we feel you should put a tube in it.

i think that when tubeless tyres first came out they hadn't developed the safety rib. However they soon did develop it and from now on i think i'm right in saying they all have them.

I don't think a tube is a bad thing. And we recommend that when in doubt fit a tube. (thiis doubt applies to no safety rib. pourous old alloys and Mags. or just a manky rim that might not seal so well)
Absolutely spot on, no question :D :D

Cheers, Tony.
Author:  tony g [ Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
Sorry but Sprint wheels are perfectly ok for tubeless as they were from the factory. MG's had tubeless in circa 1958 on the same wheels as tube type.
The little ridge on moderns helps if the the pressure is so low the sidewalls can flex too much and maybe break the bead but with correct pressures it is not a problem. Seems theres a lot of scare talk going on here and a lot of people may suddenly feel like tubes are the best way. I'll say why I think tubes are BAD for use with TUBELESS tyres:

Years ago tyres designed for tubes were very smooth inside so the tube couldnt push into any ridges in the tyre shape.
Tubeless tyres now are very ribbed and shaped inside the tyre and a tube can push into these "shapes" and actually cause "pinch punctures"

The rigidity of modern TUBELESS sidewalls are so good that unless severely deflated they will not push off the rim.

Most racers here use tubeless tyres that have proper grip not 50 year old crossplys! Even on stock Sprint rims they do not fall off.
I've been biting my lip on this topic but it is absolute bull ***t that tubes are the future! ffs.

Tubes moving inside the tyre cause heat between the tube and tyre, at some point thats not going to be good and fretting between the 2 rubbers will cause the tube to fail. A totally bad situation.

If others agree with me please post it here. Because I dont post a squillion threads on restorations with ample pics I may be overlooked in my opinions and thats fine but we have a new guy who sells tyres (and Michelin TUBES) telling us changing to tubes is the way forward!
Proper step backwards and it needs to be addressed now.

All the best

Tony
Author:  cliftyhanger [ Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirelli tyre fail
I agree.
I don't see how a tube will help at all. If my tyre gets a nail through it, it deflates very slowly, but if tubed very fast.
I still do not understand how a deflated tube will help the tyre beads stay in the correct position. And unless the driver is a complete idiot, the only way pressure will be that low is after a puncture...

Oh, and for the record, my toledo did stacks of PCT's where the tyre pressure was allowed to be down to 10PSI on occasion. Never had an issue with tyres coming off rims (plenty of other problems though! mainly slipping down when I should have been going up...)
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