No picture come to think of it no drawing either.
<p>1980 Dolomite Sprint V8 (Sprint's where never meant to sound this good?)<br>
1997 Vauxhall Calibra 2.0 16v SE8<br>
2003 Suzuki GSX1300R (The Yamaha R1 is indicating 190mph When the Busa flies past)<br>
This space is available for advertising, contact user for rates.</p><i></i>
Idle musing
Re: ...Blank cam
That's similar to my thinking Phil and along the lines of Dave's revolutionary (get it?) planet gear invention, but wouldn't the shorter chain would put things out of phase with the crank. You might need to calculate the cog sizes to compensate...no, talking bollocks, chain size wouldn't affect it at all!<br>
<br>
Dave, I think you ought to patent your idea quick, I'm starting to have ideas about an extra gearing device which could wrap around the final drive...
<p>1973 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1974 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (Pageant)<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (White)<br>
1979 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1979 Dolomite 1850HL<br>
1980 Dolomite 1500HL<br>
1998 Lotus Elise<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 2.5 V6<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 V6 (Didn't sell, still for sale!)</p><i></i>
<br>
Dave, I think you ought to patent your idea quick, I'm starting to have ideas about an extra gearing device which could wrap around the final drive...
<p>1973 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1974 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (Pageant)<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (White)<br>
1979 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1979 Dolomite 1850HL<br>
1980 Dolomite 1500HL<br>
1998 Lotus Elise<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 2.5 V6<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 V6 (Didn't sell, still for sale!)</p><i></i>
Re: ...Blank cam
Yup, that would work, it's what I meant by a cam layshaft.<br>
<br>
More complications. A standard cam can only be run backwards in the mirror head if the leading and trailing edges of the lobes are the same.<br>
<br>
Tinweevil<br>
<br>
<br>
<p>1978 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/704">Dolomite Sprint</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1968 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/705">GT6 II</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1972 Spitfire IV<br>
39 anorak points on the Nicholas scale<br>
</p><i></i>
<br>
More complications. A standard cam can only be run backwards in the mirror head if the leading and trailing edges of the lobes are the same.<br>
<br>
Tinweevil<br>
<br>
<br>
<p>1978 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/704">Dolomite Sprint</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1968 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/705">GT6 II</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1972 Spitfire IV<br>
39 anorak points on the Nicholas scale<br>
</p><i></i>
-
Jon Tilson
- Posts: 1311
- Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2003 8:28 pm
Some suggestions
Will the std cam in the non mirrored head work? I'm not too up on the firing order of the stga V8. Presumably if the 8V cam is the same as a dolly/tr7 slant 4 on that side the non mirrored one would work ok.<br>
Some other lumps that have been converted to 4V per cylinder and must had a similar problem....<br>
<br>
Cosworth granada 24V engine<br>
Peugeot/Citroen V6 24V. Nice engine...had one in an XM 24V once. Not supposed to be terribly reliable though as cam chains break.!<br>
SAAB V6....dunno anything about this, even if its 24 V.<br>
<br>
GM yank V6's...<br>
<br>
Corvette V8 engine?<br>
<br>
Caddie north star V8 is 32 V init? Derived from something 2V no doubt<br>
<br>
Jonners<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Some other lumps that have been converted to 4V per cylinder and must had a similar problem....<br>
<br>
Cosworth granada 24V engine<br>
Peugeot/Citroen V6 24V. Nice engine...had one in an XM 24V once. Not supposed to be terribly reliable though as cam chains break.!<br>
SAAB V6....dunno anything about this, even if its 24 V.<br>
<br>
GM yank V6's...<br>
<br>
Corvette V8 engine?<br>
<br>
Caddie north star V8 is 32 V init? Derived from something 2V no doubt<br>
<br>
Jonners<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Re: Some suggestions
4v per cylinder on DOHC-per-bank engines is no problem as each cam only has to operate either the inlet or exhaust valves, so it doesn't matter which way round the cam runs, as long as the profile is correct.
<p></p><i></i>
<p></p><i></i>
Re: Some suggestions
With the planetary drive wouldnt you alter the speed of the cam as there would be more teeth on the outer ring than the sun gear<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Adam
<p></p><i></i>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Adam
<p></p><i></i>
Re: Some suggestions
The sun needs to spin at twice the speed of the ring gear anyway to counteract the whole unit spinning, so it's not a problem.
<p></p><i></i>
<p></p><i></i>
Why waste time with the Stag lump?
Even idle musings....the bottom end is rubbish - as Jonner's has said before - why waste your time with a lump that will lunch it's bearings every 40k miles.<br>
<br>
Changing the subject slightly - with the exception on the Lotus designed ZR1 32 valve engine, the Corvette lump - as Adam says - has good old push rods - the Lister Storm prototype had one of those in last years Le Mans, I was amazed at the archaic engineering - then I realised the C5-R and C6-R are all two valve push rod lumps - last year they still managed to beat the shit out of all comers, and have only just had a bit of competition with the DBR9's.<br>
<br>
And if you want some British power and give up on the 32 Valve Stag lump - dig out a 4.5 Daimler Magestic Major hemi, but I doubt that would give Russ Carpenters 2.5 Daimler dragster a problem - which is still able to do 1/4's in under 8 seconds - 1400bhp from 2.5 litres (in the early 80's), what will you get from a Stag (Ok, Ok so its a blown funny fueler, but the Stag lump would expire before you got to 350)? <br>
<br>
The 2.5 Daimler lump can take some abuse - it's a Brit - not like that Rover lump of crap and sounds bloody wonderful.<br>
<br>
OHC 32 valve- nah, it'll never catch on, get the drill out and make some room for push rods.<br>
<br>
Dives for cover.<br>
<br>
<p>Ben<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.dollysprint.com">www.dollysprint.com</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></p><i></i>
<br>
Changing the subject slightly - with the exception on the Lotus designed ZR1 32 valve engine, the Corvette lump - as Adam says - has good old push rods - the Lister Storm prototype had one of those in last years Le Mans, I was amazed at the archaic engineering - then I realised the C5-R and C6-R are all two valve push rod lumps - last year they still managed to beat the shit out of all comers, and have only just had a bit of competition with the DBR9's.<br>
<br>
And if you want some British power and give up on the 32 Valve Stag lump - dig out a 4.5 Daimler Magestic Major hemi, but I doubt that would give Russ Carpenters 2.5 Daimler dragster a problem - which is still able to do 1/4's in under 8 seconds - 1400bhp from 2.5 litres (in the early 80's), what will you get from a Stag (Ok, Ok so its a blown funny fueler, but the Stag lump would expire before you got to 350)? <br>
<br>
The 2.5 Daimler lump can take some abuse - it's a Brit - not like that Rover lump of crap and sounds bloody wonderful.<br>
<br>
OHC 32 valve- nah, it'll never catch on, get the drill out and make some room for push rods.<br>
<br>
Dives for cover.<br>
<br>
<p>Ben<br>
<br>
<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.dollysprint.com">www.dollysprint.com</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--></p><i></i>
Re: Why waste time with the Stag lump?
Assuming you have the budget for a 5k custom head then the rest of the engine probably isn't going to scare you off. 1100 quid for two sets of sprintparts race pistons. £1270 for two sets of sprintparts conrods. Well over a 10k engine. Would it really be so fragile? I'm sure a sprintparts ladder would be in there. The only stag parts are the block and crank and those could be very carefully selected on that kind of budget.<br>
<br>
The 32v stag would be 3.3 litres. My wet finger in the air guess would be 320-350 bhp before alg1k or quicksprint got their hands on it. How do I arrive at that? 220 max for a 2l sprint is bleeding edge, 180 is sensible. But this highly theoretical engine has a better aspiration ratio (inlet valve area vs volume) than the standard sprint. Therefore I guess at better volumetric performance without being quite so stressed.<br>
<br>
Would it stand up to alg1k sticking a spare harrier jump jet engine he happened to find in his shed under the bonnet? Who knows?<br>
<br>
How does that sort of figure compare to a normally aspirated and carb'd 2.5 or 4.5 litre daimler lump?<br>
<br>
But here's two answers to your question of why bother. 1) It's only an intellectual exercise. 2) If it ever came to more than that changing the bearings every 40k miles would be a tiny price to pay IMHO. I bet that 1400bhp liquid semtex burner gets rebuilt more like every 40 miles.<br>
<br>
No need for cover tho, we all need a sanity check every now and then. Well I do at any rate.<br>
<br>
Tinweevil
<p>1978 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/704">Dolomite Sprint</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1968 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/705">GT6 II</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1972 Spitfire IV<br>
39 anorak points on the Nicholas scale<br>
</p><i></i>
<br>
The 32v stag would be 3.3 litres. My wet finger in the air guess would be 320-350 bhp before alg1k or quicksprint got their hands on it. How do I arrive at that? 220 max for a 2l sprint is bleeding edge, 180 is sensible. But this highly theoretical engine has a better aspiration ratio (inlet valve area vs volume) than the standard sprint. Therefore I guess at better volumetric performance without being quite so stressed.<br>
<br>
Would it stand up to alg1k sticking a spare harrier jump jet engine he happened to find in his shed under the bonnet? Who knows?<br>
<br>
How does that sort of figure compare to a normally aspirated and carb'd 2.5 or 4.5 litre daimler lump?<br>
<br>
But here's two answers to your question of why bother. 1) It's only an intellectual exercise. 2) If it ever came to more than that changing the bearings every 40k miles would be a tiny price to pay IMHO. I bet that 1400bhp liquid semtex burner gets rebuilt more like every 40 miles.<br>
<br>
No need for cover tho, we all need a sanity check every now and then. Well I do at any rate.<br>
<br>
Tinweevil
<p>1978 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/704">Dolomite Sprint</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1968 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/705">GT6 II</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1972 Spitfire IV<br>
39 anorak points on the Nicholas scale<br>
</p><i></i>
....
the 1400HP Daimler would be stripped at the end of every 1-2 runs, to check for damage. <br>
<br>
It also costs an absolute friggin' fortune, I have a 2.5 in the shed, looked into rebuiling it, it's just a joke. Parts are so stupidly expensive!<br>
<br>
I'm sure you could get roudn the bearings every 40k anyway, use higher quality items or uprate them somehow...<br>
<br>
Think later, cushion stomac h for now <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :x --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/sick.gif ALT=":x"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
Couldn't you bore the Stag out to 4 litres....swear HRS had a 4.0 one....that would give it some punch.<br>
<br>
After all, no replacement for displacement!
<p></p><i></i>
<br>
It also costs an absolute friggin' fortune, I have a 2.5 in the shed, looked into rebuiling it, it's just a joke. Parts are so stupidly expensive!<br>
<br>
I'm sure you could get roudn the bearings every 40k anyway, use higher quality items or uprate them somehow...<br>
<br>
Think later, cushion stomac h for now <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :x --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/sick.gif ALT=":x"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
Couldn't you bore the Stag out to 4 litres....swear HRS had a 4.0 one....that would give it some punch.<br>
<br>
After all, no replacement for displacement!
<p></p><i></i>
Re: ....
You get to 3.3 by boring out to the standard sprint size. Going over standard gives about 1cc per 10 thou on a sprint but will be less on the stag. You get 3.3 rather than 4 because the stag has a shorther stroke than the sprint. I wouldn't have a clue weather a longer stroke can be used without seeing one.<br>
<br>
I may have thought of another snag. The bores on a v8 must be staggered. The standard stag bore may be offset compared to the sprint with one bank pushed forward so that the sprint/stag bore circles touch at the front. The other bank would be pushed back within the volume of the sprint bore. This would mean if the stag were bored out to the same size as the sprint you'd break into waterways and possibly out the end of the block. Anyone got a stag block kicking about to meaure? Look to see if the bores are centrally placed within the square formed by 4 head fixings. <br>
<br>
Tinweevil
<p>1978 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/704">Dolomite Sprint</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1968 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/705">GT6 II</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1972 Spitfire IV<br>
39 anorak points on the Nicholas scale<br>
</p><i></i>
<br>
I may have thought of another snag. The bores on a v8 must be staggered. The standard stag bore may be offset compared to the sprint with one bank pushed forward so that the sprint/stag bore circles touch at the front. The other bank would be pushed back within the volume of the sprint bore. This would mean if the stag were bored out to the same size as the sprint you'd break into waterways and possibly out the end of the block. Anyone got a stag block kicking about to meaure? Look to see if the bores are centrally placed within the square formed by 4 head fixings. <br>
<br>
Tinweevil
<p>1978 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/704">Dolomite Sprint</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1968 <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.triumphowners.com/705">GT6 II</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>
1972 Spitfire IV<br>
39 anorak points on the Nicholas scale<br>
</p><i></i>
Re: ....
Chain (or double sided belt if you insist) runs on INSIDE of BOTH cam sprockets. A static jockey cog tensioner centrally placed and higher than the cam sprockets, a static guide in the usual place ie lower than and outside of one cam sprocket above the crank sprocket and mirrored by the adjustable tensioner/guide opposite.<br>
<br>
Elegant solution, cams turn in opposite directions albeit it is the mirror that turns in the normal direction. QED<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
<br>
Oh dear, relies on all the timing gear for both heads being co-linear. Haven't seen a Stag lump for a while, are the heads offset like my V6 or not?
<p>1973 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1974 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (Pageant)<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (White)<br>
1979 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1979 Dolomite 1850HL<br>
1980 Dolomite 1500HL<br>
1998 Lotus Elise<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 2.5 V6<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 V6 (Didn't sell, still for sale!)</p><i></i>
<br>
Elegant solution, cams turn in opposite directions albeit it is the mirror that turns in the normal direction. QED<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>
<br>
<br>
Oh dear, relies on all the timing gear for both heads being co-linear. Haven't seen a Stag lump for a while, are the heads offset like my V6 or not?
<p>1973 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1974 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (Pageant)<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (White)<br>
1979 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1979 Dolomite 1850HL<br>
1980 Dolomite 1500HL<br>
1998 Lotus Elise<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 2.5 V6<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 V6 (Didn't sell, still for sale!)</p><i></i>
Re: ....
No, ignore me, I'm talking bollocks.<br>
<br>
I'm sure it worked when I was in the shower this morning!
<p>1973 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1974 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (Pageant)<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (White)<br>
1979 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1979 Dolomite 1850HL<br>
1980 Dolomite 1500HL<br>
1998 Lotus Elise<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 2.5 V6<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 V6 (Didn't sell, still for sale!)</p><i></i>
<br>
I'm sure it worked when I was in the shower this morning!
<p>1973 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1974 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (Pageant)<br>
1977 Dolomite Sprint (White)<br>
1979 Dolomite Sprint<br>
1979 Dolomite 1850HL<br>
1980 Dolomite 1500HL<br>
1998 Lotus Elise<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 2.5 V6<br>
1999 Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 V6 (Didn't sell, still for sale!)</p><i></i>
.
<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END-->
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