The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Que? If its picking up off the prop bolts you're going to get 4 pulses per rev of the prop at any speed surely? I probably have a slight space advantage over you on account of me not having a clutch pedal and box to get in the way! I was thinking of rotating the column so the motor sticks out to the left to utilise this empty space! Most of the columns I've seen on e-bay have a double jointed lower shaft attached and a lower bracket to fix the whole thing to the bulkhead, my thought was to utilize the lower bracket losing the need for the Dollys rather useless lower bush (could just use a big grommet instead) and fit the lower coupling straight to the rack. This would hopefully leave the motor just inside the bulkhead and the column sticking up at approximately the correct angle. However all this is guesswork for me as I dont have a column yet to measure it all up and Krypton Factor it out! No doubt you will soon tell me I've got it all wrong!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:11 pm 
I had the same thought. I have how had a look properly at the car. My orginal idea wont work and I don't think yours will the main problem is the brake pedle. The pedle is shaped to just clear the steering column. The mouthing for the pedle and the column are on the same line. The only way to get it to fit is I front of the pedle prity much where the orginal dolomite column adjuster is. Not ideal. The problem is the electric column is quite wide with a bloody great motor sticking out the side. I've kind of made my mind up that I will loose the up and down adj ( never use it now. It's always on in lowest ) but I want to keep the in and out.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Looking at my Toledo, which is manual and has no parcel tray so access is good, I can see your problem, the gap between the 2 pedals is only just enough to permit passage of the original very thin column between them, making it necessary to bring the motor housing somewhat further up towards the driver. I know it doesn't help you, but as my Sprint is an auto, I may just get away with it if I rotate the column so the bulk of the motor housing sticks out to the left where the clutch pedal and box normally lives. I think I'm gonna bite the bullet and get a column off the bay, (they're certainly cheap enough) worry about the engineering first and the ECU, loom and sensor fittings once i've solved that! So we may well end up following different paths to the same result but please stay in touch as any experience is useful, good or bad! Good luck with yours!

Steve

PS Is that the Nurburgring forming the background to your avatar pic?

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:48 pm 
A lack of clutch pedel would help. I got my column of the spitfire grave yard. £40 included postage. For that I got the column and ecu. The main advantage of getting it from him was he leaves the plugs pluged in and just cuts the cables so you can make wiring loam up easily. he gave the impression he has several in stock.
I have shelved the pas for a while and turning my attention back to finishing the EFI. The photo is me just coming up over the mountain at cadwell park.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:04 pm 
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I'm pretty sure my local nonspecific breaker has one or two MGFs in stock and always gives me a good deal (my Omega gearbox with prop, slave cyl, pipe and all shifter bits was also £40) doing it this way means I can get the loom, sensors and ECU and anything else I need from 1 car and I know it will all match as there seems to be a couple of variations. The downside is that "local" is a relative term and also I'm probably going to spend the best part of a day getting it all off myself (probably in the rain!) I've got an adjustable column with motor, lock and keys on watch on the bay at the moment for £17.99 + carriage so might just take a chance on that as a quick option to get me started!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:41 pm 
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Steve its your car and you can do with it what you like...

It just seemed a change of philosophy somehow.... and odd given the time you spent getting the original lump running and that it sounded good.

I dont personally think the Sprint engine is in any way deficient per se...it was if anything ahead of its time and is quite competitive with many a later or even modern engine on specific bhp terms. Its even quite simple to work on....and unlike anything Vauxhall have made recently you can get the sump plug out come oil change time.

If I were going to upgrade it I'd be looking at modern efi....this is where all the big improvements in modern engines have come from.

I also think the mgf leccy power steering is a very good idea. Most drivers used to moderns with pas find the dolly on 185's a bit of a mare to park, especially if they have the wrong set of chromosomes.

I'd also question the financial sanity of separating a matching numbers sprint auto when they are now so rare when you could do much the same to a 1500HL auto which nobody in their right mind would think worth keeping with its ohv tragedy.

Jonners

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Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:13 pm 
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Quote:
I'd also question the financial sanity of separating a matching numbers sprint auto when they are now so rare when you could do much the same to a 1500HL auto which nobody in their right mind would think worth keeping with its ohv tragedy.

Jonners
:rasp: :rasp: :rasp: :rasp:

_________________
1978 Pageant Sprint - the rustomite, 1972 Spitfire IV - sprintfire project, 1968 Valencia GT6 II - little Blue, 1980 Vermillion 1500HL - resting. 1974 Sienna 1500TC, Mrs Weevils big brown.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:01 pm 
I may be wrong here but wasn't this shell about scrap. So in my mind Steve is restoring a car to the road that would otherwise have become bean cans. It may be a rare sprint auto but nobody wanted it so in my mind they can't be that desirable. Also why is it better is convert a 1500 auto than a sprint auto.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Quote:
Steve its your car and you can do with it what you like...

It just seemed a change of philosophy somehow.... and odd given the time you spent getting the original lump running and that it sounded good.

I dont personally think the Sprint engine is in any way deficient per se...it was if anything ahead of its time and is quite competitive with many a later or even modern engine on specific bhp terms. Its even quite simple to work on....and unlike anything Vauxhall have made recently you can get the sump plug out come oil change time.

If I were going to upgrade it I'd be looking at modern efi....this is where all the big improvements in modern engines have come from.

I also think the mgf leccy power steering is a very good idea. Most drivers used to moderns with pas find the dolly on 185's a bit of a mare to park, especially if they have the wrong set of chromosomes.

I'd also question the financial sanity of separating a matching numbers sprint auto when they are now so rare when you could do much the same to a 1500HL auto which nobody in their right mind would think worth keeping with its ohv tragedy.

Jonners
1)It was always my plan to fit the Omega lump so no change of philosophy is involved, i only spent about 3 hours total getting it running and that was so I could sell it as a runner with confidence that I was not selling a pig in a poke (as a useful side effect it also made it worth more!)

2a)Are you MAD? The Sprint engine has more issues than I can reasonably count! True many of them can be overcome with modern tech and materials but the simple facts are that a)it is now getting rather long in the tooth, b) decent quality spares are expensive and hard to find, c)at the standard 127bhp it is already close to its sensible tuning limit, serious mods make it too fragile for regular use without spending totally disproportionate amounts of dosh, d) easy to work on? Words fail me!
2b) The Omega donor I have just bought has a tin sump so no problem with the plug coming out! I know what you mean though, I had to chisel one out of a Corsa last week and fit a new one!

3)The Vauxhall EFI is plenty modern enough for me and seems to be bulletproof in its reliability! (thats probably not what you meant is it?)

4) We agree about the PAS so no further comment from me is necessary.

5a)As I noted earlier there is no engine number allocated to this car on the V5 so matching numbers is impossible to confirm or deny (unless its on the heritage certificate that I haven't got) What is certain is that both engine and box have been out recently (at least in mileage terms) the engine "feels" new, all the oils are spotless and all the unit is clean and shiny even in the places that are impossible to clean in situ. Whether it is the original unit rebuilt or another, I can only guess! Financial sanity is a bit subjective as I'm not doing this for profit but figure this, a really nice Auto Sprint is worth £1000-£1500 LESS than a man O/D car so about 6k, Martin B's Excellent modded Tolly made 6.5k (about 5k more than it would if standard) Since Sprint values are much higher I cannot compete on those terms but I think if it is completed to a similar high standard it should be worth at least as much as a good standard car, just in its own right!
5b)Its true I could have bought a (probably much better) 1500HL Auto for what I gave for this Sprint but buying a Sprint gives me a legit Sprint ID and a Sprint axle, tunnel housing and probably other bits that I really need in one package. I'm definitely not going to get drawn into the argument over whether the 1500 is a crap engine or not, all I will say is that, like the Sprint and the Stag, it was not properly developed and with some relatively minor mods can produce decent horsepower reliably.

As an aside I would also like to mention the transmission which is going in as part of the package, this is a Jap made Aisin/Warner ECU controlled, 4speed, 3 range box with lockup on the overdriven 4th gear which will improve the performance, flexibility and fuel economy (and probably reliability too) compared with the old BW65.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:39 am 
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Well I suppose we are never going to agree about the merits or otherwise of the Sprint lump...
My own experience with them has always been good, and the current long termer of some 25 years is still in daily use. I simply dont have the time or inclination to fit foreign engines.
Like I said...its your car and you can do what you like. I just wouldnt have gone down this route myself, but all credit to your for writing it up for us to talk about.

An omega or even the older carltons and senators are worthy devices and I agree are a bargain.

And sorry Tin I know you (and Jod too in his day) swim against the tide with some skill and mechancal empathy, but my own experience with the 1500ohv is it only belongs in a Spit, where it doesnt have to work so hard.

Jonners

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Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:25 pm 
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I still maintain that the best place for the 1500 is in a Dolly 1500 auto. A sports car engine it isn't. My day has only passed because of the woeful quality of engine components for the OHV engines from the 'specialists'. Speaking of which, I have three engines worth of mains and big ends, AE / Glacier, mostly standard sizes but a set of +010 big ends fitted once but never run. Some thrust washers and oil seals too. Offers invited.....

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Vindicator Sprint, Honda Fireblade RRX 919cc, re-powered by AB Performance. Quick.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Quote:
I still maintain that the best place for the 1500 is in a Dolly 1500 auto. A sports car engine it isn't. My day has only passed because of the woeful quality of engine components for the OHV engines from the 'specialists'. Speaking of which, I have three engines worth of mains and big ends, AE / Glacier, mostly standard sizes but a set of +010 big ends fitted once but never run. Some thrust washers and oil seals too. Offers invited.....
This is one reason why I've gone the modern engine route, i bought the Sprint from a guy called Mark Maynard in Stroud, he runs an engine building and tuning shop with rolling road etc and his shop is full of Triumph engines. When I went there to collect the Sprint he was involved in a discussion with an equally clued up TR6 owner whose engine was in bits on the bench but due to go to Le Mans this year. Mark said, "Ive got a crate of County oil pumps back there, so far I've pulled out 9 for this engine and none of them has been within useable tolerances!" With decent quality engine parts getting so thin on the ground it is an unfortunate fact of life that our engines days are numbered, at least as daily drivers that will inevitably wear out. I can see the day coming when british classics will be like the wonderful 50s yanks in Cuba (though i doubt I will ever sink so low as to fit a Lada engine!)

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Quote:

I'd also question the financial sanity of separating a matching numbers sprint auto when they are now so rare.

Jonners
Having read this again (and my reply!) I have been struck by this term "financial sanity" which must surely qualify as "Oxymoron of the day" If any of us restorers had any financial sanity we would not be restorers, or at least not of Triumphs!
I made a big thing of MBs Toledo being sold for several thousand and also now I think about it, Mad Marts Project PUS which also made good money but I will bet the pound of flesh nearest my heart that the prices they sold for came nowhere near the cost of getting them into that condition never mind the countless hours of "free" labour put in by their devoted owners!
I am quite sure that if anyone was foolhardy enough to undertake this sort of job for profit they would be bankrupt faster than you could say Dolomite!
I would therefore like to question the "financial sanity" of any Triumph restoration and take comfort from the fact that I am not alone in not having any!!!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:49 pm 
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I dont think the Ford prices are a fair guide to anything. The blue oval prices are inflated by the popularity of the cars in Group 4 rallying, particularly mk1 and (to a lesser extent) mk2 Escorts. Personally I think the Triumph chassis is far superior to a Dagenham dustbin but nobody asked me!

Steve

PS I admire your tenacity and attention to detail and I hope you're right about the values eventually rising. On the other hand there does seem at the moment to be quite a few Toledos and low spec Dollys being done on a budget by youngsters with more enthusiasm than money and I applaud this as well, These lads are the future of our cars in a very real sense. Then there are the nutcases like me who build cars to suit ourselves cos we can't buy exactly what we want "over the counter" and love driving something different! S

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: The Next Level
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:56 am 
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Well put like that its pretty hard to argue...

But given that your time and bodywork skills are free, and the paint and materials will cost what a ton?

Then the bots for Mot, what 200 tops, then what you paid for it.

A tidy sprint auto is an easy 4.5k. Reg just got an agreed value on his well north of that. So on that basis you would have made something surely?

The red top Tolly was a bit special and well worth the money though....but are you putting a red top in yours?

I don't know what yours will be worth Vauxhalled, but as its just for you to drive its a moot point anyway....and a lot more interesting than any modern.

Jonners

_________________
Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.


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