The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:05 pm 
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Great stuff as usual James! Another build thread to follow!

Keith


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Thanks everyone!

I have been cracking on with the rear section of the NS sill, it's in a pretty bad way and a lot has had to be cut out.

So it's out with the templates! 8)

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First to go was this little section

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Not a huge amount left here now!

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I fitted and tacked in the inner sill repair section so that I could start rebuilding everything back up.

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That is now tacked in place, the next job was to repair the jacking point reinforcement section.

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Make an outer sill repair section

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Fit that then repair the lower lip of the inner sill diaphragm panel. The repair section is plug welded to the inner sill repair section then the outer sill is plug welded at the fold, this closely recreates the original sill structure creating a very rigid box section.

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Closed off the wheelarch panel and test fitted the sills before fitting my upper lip repair section.

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Refitted the doors to check that everything lined up correctly.

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There is some trimming to be done to my repair sections as the sills arent exactly straight, they do have a curve to them.

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Mondays jobs are to finish closing in the rear inner wheel arch sections and to start the front of the sill sections. I can't fit the outer sill until I have both wax protected the inner sills and repaired the outer rear wheel arch. I need to ensure the sill and wheel arch align exactly.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:40 pm 
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Cracking work again James :D I bet you are brilliant at those 3D jigsaw's in your spare time, if you ever get any :lol: :lol:

Tony.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:42 pm 
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Time for a weekly update!

I have now rebuilt the front sill section and closed off the panels, I cut off all of the old outer sill section, sorry about the photo.

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Rebuilt the jacking point reinforcer. The steel used here is thick, about 3mm although you can't see it.

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Repaired the inner diaphragm and attached this to the lower sill.

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Some UPol and we have now got a completely repaired inner sill structure ready for the outer skin. All of this will be wax protected.

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Richard Old's car came to the resuce again providing me with a front sill section that I could use to template a new panel

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Some cutting and welding later we have this...

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I have deliberately made the space between the lower section of the front wing and sill larger as this is the area that gets clogged with mud and rots out. This way hopefully it should be kept clear and with a good dose of wax protection it should last well.

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Then it was a quick job to close off the front inner wheelarch.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:56 pm 
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Onto the rear wheelarch, its a bit of a state!

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So out with the grinder!

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and repair sections cut in, sorry I forgot to take some photos of this bit.

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The inner wheelarch was then repaired and rust treated ready for the outer repair section to be fitted.

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The lip has been bonded with automotive panel glue as well as being plug welded. The idea is that the panel glue does the job that the bituminous product did and seals the inner and outer sections together. It shouldn't really need welding as the panel glue is strong, but Ive gone for a belt and braces approach.

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Then it was a case of repairing the rear lower wing and welding everything on carefully. It will require a skim of filler but the main thing is that the swage line does line up correctly so it wont be such a faf for the body shop to sort out.

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The inner wheel arch has then been wire brushed and coated in anti rust killer paint before seam sealing the seam in there.

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This will then be stone chipped and painted.

Then it was a case of wax protecting inside the sill and putting the outer skin on. The rear door skin does line up, it's just low where the seam has blown, the rest of it lines up perfectly.

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I just need to close off the front join, seam weld the top section of the sill and rear of the inner sill, attach the jacking points and the car can be turned around and the other side done.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:06 pm 
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Where does the strength for the jacking points come from James, is there any box section there to take the weight. Great work as usual!

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Murdo DA

RNK 957W, Triumph Dolomite Sprint.

Built 26/6/1980 (one of the last built), Auto, Porcelain White - Genuine Mileage 52,820 (warranted).

Only 3 previous owners, (2 within the same family).

Supplied by Lavender Hill Garage Ltd, Enfield, London, by garage owner Jimmy Metcalfe on 30th September 1980 to Geoffery Robinson, Enfield.

Club Membership No: 2017092


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:22 pm 
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Thanks Murdo,

The jacking point is made by the 3mm thick reinforcing section that I repaired above being spot welded to the rear, lower and upper of the inner sill, I have actually seam welded my repair as I cant get the torch in to plug weld it properly. The diaphragm then sits in front of that, in my case it has been plug welded to the lower part of the inner sill. the other side has the inner wheelarch to create a box section. Outside a jacking pad locates to distribute forces up through the box section.

Here's a really bad drawing!

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Basically the jacking point is a box section, the sills are two box sections closed in by the inner wheel arches, the whole arrangement when welded properly is actually quite strong. I'll demonstrate that when I have done the other side.

Hopefully that made sense!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:56 pm 
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Further to James explanation of the jacking points structure these photos may help visualise the structure:

The sills are made up of three main parts, inner, centre diaphragm (referred to as the sill reinforcement in the parts books) and the outer sill (top photo):
Each end of the inner sill as shown in James drawing has additional reinforcement (middle photo) which when fitted together with the remaining sill panels form a box (bottom photo), shown here without the wheel arch panels.


Attachments:
sill inner -diaphragm - outer  .JPG
sill inner -diaphragm - outer .JPG [ 296.58 KiB | Viewed 834 times ]
inner sill jacking point.JPG
inner sill jacking point.JPG [ 213.54 KiB | Viewed 834 times ]
sill end.JPG
sill end.JPG [ 99.73 KiB | Viewed 834 times ]


Last edited by DOLOMITE 135 on Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:57 pm 
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Quote:
Thanks Murdo,

The jacking point is made by the 3mm thick reinforcing section that I repaired above being spot welded to the rear, lower and upper of the inner sill, I have actually seam welded my repair as I cant get the torch in to plug weld it properly. The diaphragm then sits in front of that, in my case it has been plug welded to the lower part of the inner sill. the other side has the inner wheelarch to create a box section. Outside a jacking pad locates to distribute forces up through the box section.

Here's a really bad drawing!

Image

Basically the jacking point is a box section, the sills are two box sections closed in by the inner wheel arches, the whole arrangement when welded properly is actually quite strong. I'll demonstrate that when I have done the other side.

Hopefully that made sense!
Perfect sense James, I wondered how it was constructed to get the strength 👍

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Murdo DA

RNK 957W, Triumph Dolomite Sprint.

Built 26/6/1980 (one of the last built), Auto, Porcelain White - Genuine Mileage 52,820 (warranted).

Only 3 previous owners, (2 within the same family).

Supplied by Lavender Hill Garage Ltd, Enfield, London, by garage owner Jimmy Metcalfe on 30th September 1980 to Geoffery Robinson, Enfield.

Club Membership No: 2017092


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:20 pm 
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James,
One query regarding the way you have welded in the inner sill repair panel, I can only see plug welds and short weld runs attaching it to the original structure in your photos, I assume this has been fully seam welded later on and this has not been shown.
The reason I bring this up is for clarity not as a criticism, so please do not take it as such. If people use your posts to guide their own repairs they may or may not realise that plug welds are only acceptable on seams that were originally spot welded, and any non original joints should be continuously seam welded along their entire lenght in order return the panel (as near as possible) to it's original design strength.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:49 pm 
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Yes that's a much better description of the jacking points! :lol:

With the sills yes you're right and right to question, I have actually just come back in from the garage after seam welding everything up properly!

Anything that should be fully seam welded has been, short runs are there to ensure that everything fits and as you all know I can't weld a panel like the diaphragm in one go without it distorting so by doing short runs like that I do tend to stop and let the panel cool down, check fit etc... if that makes sense. I just then go back and finish it off, I did the same underneath, short runs, made sure everything fits then go back and fully weld up.

The old sills were just plugged on, top and bottom. I know this is common but I don't agree with it which is why I am removing them and putting new club ones back on properly.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:56 pm 
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When I drill some holes for the final rust proofing I'll get my camera probe down there and take a photo of the diaphragm.

I'll also remember to take a photo of the other side fully done before I put the sill on!

It's a good point you make and the whole point of this thread if for a potential buyer/future owner to be able to see what work has been done on the car.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:18 pm 
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James,

Your reply makes perfect sense, tacking up first to check fit, and then not putting too much heat into a panel by welding too much at once sounds logical to me.

Unfortunately due to the age of our cars, they have been subject to the hands of many people, some more skilled than others, plus repair standards change. It doesn't surprise me that your old sills were plug welded top and bottom, one of my Dolomite's sills was plug welded on the bottom and brazed along the join to the original sill at the top (the previous owner who had the sill work done pointed out the new sills as a selling point and stated they had been done by their local garage). When I checked them I was less than impressed and replaced both (I should point out that this was some years ago).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:07 pm 
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James

nice work, i like the idea about tag welding the inner and outer lip and use panel glue

Dave


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:13 pm 
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First of all, let me say I have no quarrel with James' work, nor do I wish to disparage continuous welded seams.

But just to clarify, continuous weld is NOT mandatory, quoting from the MOT testers manual, "a minimum of one inch in every four is permissible" but "continuous weld IS acceptable" So it's not a great sin to miss a half inch here or there! And, of course, plug welding is perfectly acceptable on a joint that was originally spot welded as has been said.

Standards have certainly changed and i've pulled sills off by hand that were put on with methods perfectly legitmate at the time they were done! And a dab of filler hides a multitude of sins! But the current standard has been in force for many years now, it's really only the "barn find" kind of resto that are turning up true horrors!

I don't like it, but what we have to realize is that, by 1990, our cars were just valueless bangers to be bodged through "just one more MOT and i'll scrap it" I wish I had a tenner for every time i've heard that one, I could have retired years ago! And if that "one year more" hadn't stretched to 5 or 6, a lot of our cars wouldn't be here today.

Steve

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'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
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