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PostPosted:Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:24 pm 
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An interesting question on that hose tail part.
I have a 1973 1850 parts book from which the early Sprint is derived and that also lists 138530 as the hose tail.
That and the inlet manifold have the same part but there is a sealing washer "WF0524" which is a Fibre washer. Later ones have a "WF0513" washer with no description.
I use Girling Red Rubber grease on the water pump sealing rings, and clean the block mating surfaces with fine wet-and dry.
Then clean off with brake-cleaner solvent.
No doubt you know that is you change a 6 vane pump for a later 12 vane pump you have to change the pump cover as well.
I wouldn't use even a rubber hammer to seat the pump. Just a spanner on the L.H. thread bolt and then set the pump clearance as per the manual.
HTH,
Tony.


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PostPosted:Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:12 pm 
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Quote:
An interesting question on that hose tail part.
I have a 1973 1850 parts book from which the early Sprint is derived and that also lists 138530 as the hose tail.
That and the inlet manifold have the same part but there is a sealing washer "WF0524" which is a Fibre washer. Later ones have a "WF0513" washer with no description.
I use Girling Red Rubber grease on the water pump sealing rings, and clean the block mating surfaces with fine wet-and dry.
Then clean off with brake-cleaner solvent.
No doubt you know that is you change a 6 vane pump for a later 12 vane pump you have to change the pump cover as well.
I wouldn't use even a rubber hammer to seat the pump. Just a spanner on the L.H. thread bolt and then set the pump clearance as per the manual.
HTH,
Tony.
Tony,
Thanks for the helpful suggestions! I did also get a new 12-vane pump cover, which is why I was searching for what ended to be a new 138530 adaptor to install into the new cover. I will keep that rubber mallet hidden in the bottom drawer.
Mike

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PostPosted:Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:40 pm 
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Well, well….my intention to “upgrade” PFJ to a 12-vane water pump has gone seriously off the rails. I received the 138530 adaptor for the heater hose connection to the 12-vane spec pump cover, and even I could tell within 21 seconds that this adaptor was not the correct one. The adaptor was threaded 1/2” BSP, while the machined port in the 12-vane pump cover is threaded 3/4” BSP. What a moron am I for not insisting that the parts vendor verify the compatibility of the parts.

It would appear that UKC1802 is indeed the correctly sized adaptor for the 12-vane pump cover currently on offer. But, sez the parts vendor, UKC1802 is no longer available, and we can suggest no substitute. My unspoken reaction - WTH was I not told that fact before I spent significantly more than 200 quid for these unusable parts? I would advise anyone thinking of upgrading their Sprint to a 12-vane water pump to make sure that they have the UKC1802 adaptor already in hand.

It seems that my only recourse is to get a new 6-vane water pump, just like my old one. My old water pump cover is perfectly serviceable and has the heater hose adaptor already attached. So all I need to get is the new 6-vane pump. I should have done that right from the start and avoided all this churning.

So, with that in mind, I have (as usual) a question. The Sprint 6-vane water pump is identified as part GWP207. I note that the TR7 also has the identical part number for its water pump. So can I just source a TR7 water pump of the same part number (which is relatively common in the US) for the Sprint??? It looks like the two applications only differ in their unique pump covers, which I already have for the Sprint.

Aaarrrggggg……….

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PostPosted:Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:36 pm 
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Will the hose fitting in the 6 vane cover fit the 12 vane cover, if you can get it out? If so, why not just butcher the 6 vane cover with a hammer & chisel or whatever? :D

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PostPosted:Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:06 pm 
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When i took my water pump out of my car it was a 12 vane,i removed the hose outlet and i fitted 1/2 BSP plug in it place, just buy 1/2 BSP hose tail Ebay sell them


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PostPosted:Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:14 pm 
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Quote:
Will the hose fitting in the 6 vane cover fit the 12 vane cover, if you can get it out? If so, why not just butcher the 6 vane cover with a hammer & chisel or whatever? :D
Mart,

I was sorely tempted to gorilla-butcher the old adaptor out of the old 6-vane cover, but I chickened out. I was afraid (paranoid by now) that if I got it out by destroying the 6-vane cover, I would find that the old adaptor was yet another BSP thread inconsistent with the new 12-vane cover's threading, in which case I would have neither the correct adaptor nor an intact 6-vane cover. To get any more parts, it is prohibitive to pay for the trans-Atlantic shipping if one wants anything quicker than 50-day delivery. Plus I rather like the looks of the old 6-vane pump cover I have now - a nicely cast piece, cute BL logo and part ID in the metal, internal "mushroom" over the LH bolt head an integral part of casting. As for the new 12-vane pump cover, well...I'm sure it functions perfectly, but it looks like an anonymous, crude casting made in someone's basement, drilled, welded, and ground down. Just aesthetics, but even SWMBO turned up her nose. But I'm sure it would have functioned perfectly....

So I am staying 6-vaned. I convinced myself that I don't need any extra cooling benefit from the 12-vane since you built PFJ with an auxiliary oil cooler, plus the Kenlowe fan, so she never runs hot anyway.

Mike

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PostPosted:Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:22 pm 
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When i took my water pump out of my car it was a 12 vane,i removed the hose outlet and i fitted 1/2 BSP plug in it place, just buy 1/2 BSP hose tail Ebay sell them
Unfortunately, the new 12-vane pump cover I received has a nicely threaded hole that is 3/4" in diameter. Hence the new 138530 adaptor I just received, with a 1/2" threaded portion, was lost in the new pump cover's threaded port. That's the point at which I gave up and decided to stay 6-vaned.

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PostPosted:Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:29 pm 
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Quote:
When i took my water pump out of my car it was a 12 vane,i removed the hose outlet and i fitted 1/2 BSP plug in it place, just buy 1/2 BSP hose tail Ebay sell them
Hold on - I just discovered that I am a pure idiot (you are right) - 1/2" BSP has a nominal diameter of 3/4". So the 12-vane pump cover is threaded for 1/2" BSP, but the 138530 adaptor is just the wrong one, too small. So I am left with searching for the UKC1802 adaptor or an equivalent if I want to stay with the 12-vane.Apologies for the confusion I am sowing. Learner at the wheel. Ebay here I come.

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PostPosted:Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:32 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
When i took my water pump out of my car it was a 12 vane,i removed the hose outlet and i fitted 1/2 BSP plug in it place, just buy 1/2 BSP hose tail Ebay sell them
Hold on - I just discovered that I am a pure idiot (you are right) - 1/2" BSP has a nominal diameter of 3/4". So the 12-vane pump cover is threaded for 1/2" BSP, but the 138530 adaptor is just the wrong one, too small. So I am left with searching for the UKC1802 adaptor or an equivalent if I want to stay with the 12-vane.Apologies for the confusion I am sowing. Learner at the wheel. Ebay here I come.
Yes, with British Standard Pipe sizes the measurement relates to the bore of the pipe, so the thread will be bigger.


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PostPosted:Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:34 pm 
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Many thanks to "new to this" for pointing me towards Ebay. I was so blindly focused on getting the part with the correct Triumph part number that I never thought to just look for the same generic part elsewhere. I was so caught up with the Triumph official terminology of "adaptor" that it was not until I learned a new phrase ("BSP hose tail") that I found the simplest solution. So, the outcome: I first searched Ebay/UK (it is a UK standard thread spec after all) and found several sources, but all with nose-bleed shipping costs to the US. Then I decided to try Ebay/US and actually found one US company here that carries BSP fittings, so trivial shipping costs for me. I have ordered the fitting. Fingers crossed that when it arrives, it is not another disappointment, and I am back to being a 12-vaner (even if it is uglier).

My apologies to everyone whose time I wasted with my earlier postings. :oops: I reaaally need to learn to think outside the box!

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PostPosted:Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:47 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
When i took my water pump out of my car it was a 12 vane,i removed the hose outlet and i fitted 1/2 BSP plug in it place, just buy 1/2 BSP hose tail Ebay sell them
Hold on - I just discovered that I am a pure idiot (you are right) - 1/2" BSP has a nominal diameter of 3/4". So the 12-vane pump cover is threaded for 1/2" BSP, but the 138530 adaptor is just the wrong one, too small. So I am left with searching for the UKC1802 adaptor or an equivalent if I want to stay with the 12-vane.Apologies for the confusion I am sowing. Learner at the wheel. Ebay here I come.
If the cover theyve sent you is 3/4 just buy a 3/4 BSP hose tail,try and keep things simple,be cheaper than buying another pump or rebuilding one


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PostPosted:Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:23 pm 
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Probably time for an update on the glacial progress I am making on PFJ: seems to be endless time passing by, just waiting on parts to arrive in the mail. Fortunately PFJ seems to have a self-generating list of simple-minded things to be done, so I have spent much of the time doing under-bonnet detailing. The absent intake manifold structure provides more convenient access to the space.

I received a dispensation from House Management to park the intake manifold structure upon the kitchen table for an indeterminate period. So I have spent many hours cleaning up the gazillion nuts/rods/shafts/springs, and hand-polishing the supposed-to-be shiny bits. Better to be in the warmth of the kitchen than in the dank wintry garage. Thirteen years of looking the other way has cleaned up nicely:
Image

The newly wide-opened spaces have also given easier access to the French Blue painted sheet metal in the engine compartment. So I have started to clean-up and re-polish those painted surfaces. PFJ is starting to reclaim perhaps a tiny bit of her pre-LeJog splendor:
Image

I had forgotten the extent to which this Sprint is accompanied by a treasure trove of documentation. Some items go back to the very first owner (the Passport to Service booklet with nine dealer service department stampings!), but the majority of the information is from 2008-onwards. The items run from receipts for parts purchases on both sides of the Atlantic, to paid restoration bills, to UK and US vehicle documentation, to a CD containing all the 2008-2009 restoration photos, to even the trans-Atlantic shipping stickers removed from PFJ's windows upon her arrival at the Charleston Docks.

All this documentation was semi-jumbled up into several manila folders, so my other recent activity has been to reorganize everything. All items are now in transparent protectors held in a 3-inch thick, 3-ring binder (a blue binder, of course). This humble Triumph may have a more detailed provenance than some of the big-buck collector cars that I have drooled over in the past. Photos of a few items from the binder:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

OK – time to go out to the mailbox to see if that blasted 1/2” BSP Adaptor Fitting for the new 12-vane Pump Cover has shown up yet.

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PostPosted:Sat Jan 29, 2022 9:23 pm 
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How to re-install UKC2538 – Bypass Connector Tube? Another nuisance question....

This is the 1-1/4” pipe that exits from the bottom of the thermostat housing and connects to the top of the water pump cover.

I am confused by the Repair Operations Manual:

30.15.15 – Inlet Manifold Gasket, Refitting
Step 12 – Carefully install a new connecting pipe via the thermostat housing dome, ensuring that it is pushed downwards to the limit of its travel.

30.15.02 – Inlet Manifold Assembly, Refitting
Step 17 – Carefully install a new connecting pipe via the thermostat housing ensuring that it is pushed downwards to the limit of its travel.

Both of these instructions (with a minor editorial variation), make it sound like one pushes the UKC2538 tube downwards within/through the thermostat housing from the top of the housing, until the tube bottom enters the port on the water pump housing. But...it is physically (dimensionally) impossible to do this “via the thermostat housing”. The connector tube can only be seated into the housing from below.

Was there a design change from what the R.O. Manual describes? To me it looks like the lower end of the connector tube has to be first positioned in the water pump housing port, and then the bottom of the thermostat housing (with the entire intake manifold assembly) need to be pushed down onto the top end of the connector tube.

Furthermore, why do both instructions state that a new connecting pipe needs to be installed? (This is just an academic question since I do have a new UKC2538.) The 1-1/4” pipe hardly looks like it can fail. Surely just replacing the top and bottom o-rings on the connecting pipe would be sufficient normally.

I get nervous when the R.O. Manual makes no sense to me.

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PostPosted:Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:03 pm 
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You may have some corrosion in the manifold that makes it LOOK impossible to insert from above, but it IS possible, i've done it dozens of times. You CAN put the bypass pipe in the pump and drop the manifold over it, but there's a good risk of getting the bypass pipe cocked or the O rings pinched in the process.

I too used to wonder about the insistence on a new pipe, and have mostly successfully just replaced O rings and Bob's your uncle. The last 2 i've done however have leaked after this treatment, a leak, I eventually traced to corrosion in the O ring lands which could not be banished successfully. So I bit the bullet and bought new ones, it's not as if they are exactly expensive!

One thing the manual doesn't tell you, is that it's very difficult (if not downright impossible) to get a good seal round the water gallery in the inlet manifold using just the gasket or a film of grease. I always put a small bead of silicone sealant just around the gallery on the gasket, 1 side is normally enough.

Steve

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PostPosted:Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:10 am 
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Once again Steve, thank you for a most helpful reply. I will just have to look more carefully at my thermostat housing internals! It certainly would be easier to do as “the book” says and stick a new connector pipe down through the bottom of the thermostat housing to join with the water pump housing below.
Mike

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