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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:43 am 
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You might find this site interesting / handy, emachineshop. You can download their CAD package free and draw stuff like your rather nice drawing quite easily. Then you just hit a button and it gives you a price delivered to your door.

You can probably, I hope, get better prices at a local machine shop but it is quite handy for Sunday 'I wonder if I could.....' musings. Also once an item is drawn you can change machines easily to learn a bit about what processes are cheaper than others. For example you could mark the holes to be drilled but it will likely be cheaper to get them laser cut as then the part only goes on one machine. My trouble is I have zero experience of the modern cutting processes like laser, water jet or plasma so I've no idea if that sort of idea is viable. Changes of materials, thickness etc again easy.

Tin

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1978 Pageant Sprint - the rustomite, 1972 Spitfire IV - sprintfire project, 1968 Valencia GT6 II - little Blue, 1980 Vermillion 1500HL - resting. 1974 Sienna 1500TC, Mrs Weevils big brown.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:10 am 
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Thanks Tin, that's a pretty smart website and an original idea. I use 3D CAD (used be a design engineer for Triumph motorcycles several years ago...) and still find it's handy now and again to keep your hand in!! The beauty of it is you can model all the respective components and check clearances and measure random dimensions. As for thickness etc, I just compare it to adjacent material and then can be assured it'll be on the over engineered side. I'm not chasing weight savings of 30g etc. Hence I opted for a sensible 10mm which looks right too.

I have a good raport with a couple of fabricators and machine shops in Leicestershire and through a bit of experience, can guess-timate a price. This is only a hobby so you'll pay what you need to I suppose. Plasma cutting is superb for this kind of plate work as it's neat, tidy and accurate to under 0.5 mm - they could spit out a couple of those brackets in a 2 minutes. Hence, it's a cheap process. The fact you can supply them with an electronic drawing speeds up the setting process further. It's worth a look/see around one of these workshops if you feel out of touch with some of the new gear. I find they enjoy the odd "foriegner" as it makes their everyday work more interesting.

Anyway, I will reserve any cheers until I have the brackets and they actually fit!!

Tom

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:37 am 
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Ah, Tin teaches grandma to suck eggs :oops:

Cheers for the info on plasma though, useful to know. About 22 years ago (yikes) I worked in a machine shop evenings & holidays while I did A levels. Their wire & spark erosion machines were the newest tech there but I never got near them.

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1978 Pageant Sprint - the rustomite, 1972 Spitfire IV - sprintfire project, 1968 Valencia GT6 II - little Blue, 1980 Vermillion 1500HL - resting. 1974 Sienna 1500TC, Mrs Weevils big brown.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:36 pm 
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Caliper brackets are being made by Marlborough Engineering in Leicestershire

http://www.marlboroughltd.com/index.htm
01455 283500

At £25 for the pair, I think that beats a lot of drilling and filing! I really hope they fit though. I only used a plywood template to get the hole positions right.Hopefully pick them up next week, so stand by for a trial fit. Then I can decide how I'm going to plumb in the brake hydraulics. I've cut off all the old bracketry so will need to work out how to clamp the new hoses and handbrake cable sympathetically.

In the meantime, I'm rebuilding the rear calipers. I have a seal kit from Bigred to do it but I'm stuck now as to how I should clean them up to paint. If anyone has any good suggestions/experience of cleaning and painting them, I'd love to know! Wire brushes and acid? Caustic soda? Fairy Liquid!!?

Tom

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Finished with Main Engines and Steering....

1981 1500 HL man/od
1972 Series 3 Land Rover diesel
2007 MX5 Sport
2010 Citroen C1
1993 Gas Gas GT32


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:55 pm 
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I take it they are iron not alloy since you mention caustic?

I did a pair for my GT6 with washing soda electrolysis last year. Slow and used up a fair bit of old steel for the sacrificial side but it definately works. Has the advantage that it will not touch good metal, only oxide gets attacked.

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1978 Pageant Sprint - the rustomite, 1972 Spitfire IV - sprintfire project, 1968 Valencia GT6 II - little Blue, 1980 Vermillion 1500HL - resting. 1974 Sienna 1500TC, Mrs Weevils big brown.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:46 pm 
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Got my caliper brackets today. I am, if I may say so, very very chuffed with the result. They fit straight on and all the holes actually line up. I sound surprised as I only measured the positions with a steel rue and a plywood template! No filing, nowt.

I'm hunting around the tins and tins of old bolts to find some long enough to bolt the whole lot up. Will also dill and countersink the screw holes in the discs as per the drums tonight. Once it's all together, I'll subject you to some pictures.

This all gets me thinking about the forthcoming axle rebuild. Has anyone out there done it themselves?? I want to order the pinion/diff carrier/wheel bearings and seals from a bearing supplier (ie British/Japanese made bearings and not chinky/taiwanese crap). I think the wheel bearing kits from Rimmers are very pricey.

TBC

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Finished with Main Engines and Steering....

1981 1500 HL man/od
1972 Series 3 Land Rover diesel
2007 MX5 Sport
2010 Citroen C1
1993 Gas Gas GT32


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 3:46 pm 
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I found some longer bolts and fitted the plate brackets. The discs and caliper carriers were all nipped up but alas the outer surface of the disc touches. I relieved the carrier with a file and sweat to give the clearance you see in the picture (next to the screwdriver tip).

The caliper pistons have been wound right in to accomodate new pads. Once on, I'm delighted to see the pads are just the right size to cover the full friction area as though they were meant to be there! This is of course where the delight ends as when trial fitting a knackered old Sprint alloy, the fouling starts. I always knew I'd have to do a little fettling to get it in there so I'm taking a break from filing the outer caliper surface. I'd say it needs about 2mm removing from the corners to achieve a clearance for a piece of card. I had to do something similar to get Trackerjacks Sierra calipers on the front. I guess these alloys just won't give up easily! I'm not losing too much sleep as the calipers are very well engineered for a car originally weighing twice as much. Or at least that's what I keep telling me'self! :roll:


Attachments:
File comment: Filing to clear.
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File comment: Pads fit nice!
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File comment: All done up
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DSC00147.JPG [ 78.46 KiB | Viewed 2469 times ]

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Finished with Main Engines and Steering....

1981 1500 HL man/od
1972 Series 3 Land Rover diesel
2007 MX5 Sport
2010 Citroen C1
1993 Gas Gas GT32
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 Post subject: Honestly.......
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:21 pm 
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I am not trying to "throw a spanner in the works" but, shouldn't the calipers be leading not trailing (since it is a back wheel drive car)?

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Eh?

The calipers are orientated in the same fashion as the vehicle they were built on i.e. mounted nearest the rear of the car. You could put them the other way around I suppose but the handbrake cable and linkage will foul the trailing arms/shock absorbers. Oh, and they would only work best if you drive around everywhere in reverse. Spanners are still out the works for now.

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Finished with Main Engines and Steering....

1981 1500 HL man/od
1972 Series 3 Land Rover diesel
2007 MX5 Sport
2010 Citroen C1
1993 Gas Gas GT32


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:37 am 
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Quote:
Eh?
The calipers are orientated in the same fashion as the vehicle they were built on i.e. mounted nearest the rear of the car.
For a front wheel drive, perhaps.
There was a thread short ago concerning which way front calipers go.
I was hoping someone would give a definite answer but that was not to be. My observation of all round discs on back wheel drive cars (BMWs and Mercedes Benz) is front:trailing, back:leading.
Something to do with unsprung weight?

No offence or criticism intended, I am just asking, that's all.

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:30 am 
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No offence taken. I've seen a mix of combinations on the front discs and rear and took a long look around before deciding. I think it must depend purely on the caliper design and the angle they grip the disc. Or maybe they aren't that sophisticated. These brakes came from a FWD Rover 820 and were orientated as you see. I can't think of a reason why being FWD or RWD would make a difference. Either way, on the Dolly you're restricted by the suspension arms and wheelarch shape obscuring the handbrake mechanism.

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Finished with Main Engines and Steering....

1981 1500 HL man/od
1972 Series 3 Land Rover diesel
2007 MX5 Sport
2010 Citroen C1
1993 Gas Gas GT32


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:59 am 
The rear brakes are looking good.
I am going to be doing something very similar possibly with a vented disk (no real reason other than it will look quite good) I see no problem with the position of your callipers. There is no rule that says that been RWD means the callipers have to be at the front. It is all down to design of the callipers and the mounting brackets. Some cars (my old Talbot Sunbeam rally car for one) have them mounted on the top. Are you keeping the rear bias valve? I was planning on doing so, as it seams to work very well when readjusted for the new setup.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:46 am 
I am yet to be convinced that there is any difference in performance of the brake calipers, be they leading or trailing. I believe that position (leading/trailing) is based on suspension/steering design, ie clearance of steering arms etc. Leading calipers might be easier to feed air to for cooling.

On the rear who knows why they are where they are. The photo below is of the rear brakes/axle set up in my race car. It is straight from a Nissan Skyline/Pinatra, trailing calipers and all works fine. They are somewhere around 260mm diameter, slightly larger than the front rotors which are 255mm.

[img]
Attachment:
File comment: Rear disc brake
Disc brake rear.JPG
Disc brake rear.JPG [ 259.12 KiB | Viewed 2386 times ]
[/img]


Mark


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 11:53 am 
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Thanks for the information guys.

A few years ago I took photographs (for a newspaper article) of an Opel Kadett (early 70s type) which had been prepared for track racing timed events. The owner was quite obsessed with attention to detail primarily in weight saving. He had uprated the brakes and talked about the importance of considering the unsprung weight, especially on a car lightened as much as his being used for racing against the clock, a few fractions of a second gained or lost here or there can make quite a difference. On it he had used Volvo calipers (440 I think) on the front because they were 4 piston type and fairly compact (lighter weight).
I fitted a Trackerjack Sierra caliper conversion to my Dolomite. Before doing so I looked at the brackets and realised that it is possible to fit the calipers to be leading or trailing. I stuck with the trailing option because of the unsprung weight issue the Opel owner had explained. Looking at back wheel drive cars parked locally (BMW and Mercedes) I observed that all had trailing front calipers so figured that this confirmed what must be the way to go.
Another car I uprated the front brakes on was a T2500S, to which I fitted Jaguar XJ calipers. These 4 piston XJ calipers are much heavier than the original Triumph 2 piston type. This weight difference is noticeable in the steering at first but you get used to it.

Sometimes we can get bogged down discussing theoretical possibilities. Look at the achievements of the world's greatest snooker player Stephen Hendry, he won seven World Championships playing with the world's worst cue (it was badly warped).
How was that possible :D ?

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:38 pm 
Quote:

I fitted a Trackerjack Sierra caliper conversion to my Dolomite. Before doing so I looked at the brackets and realised that it is possible to fit the calipers to be leading or trailing. I stuck with the trailing option because of the unsprung weight issue the Opel owner had explained.
Unsprung weight is the same if they are leading or trailing !

My Trackerjack brake conversion is fitted leading because my Escort calipers are fitted that way on the Escort that donated them. Also cooling is better.


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