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 Post subject: Outer headlight query
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:38 pm 
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The rubber boot to the rear of the headlight that is held in by 2 semi circular riveted metal plates. Is there a source for these or plastic or some other alternative for retaining the rubber boot? I have new plastic bowls to fit but would still like to fit the rubber protection for the back of the headlight bowl or does conventional wisdom believe they are just worse at trapping moisture and dirt


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:13 pm 
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I have a pair of these, part of a batch made by Mark (SprintMWU773V) a couple of years ago. I'm still in 2 minds over whether to use them or not, for the reason you have stated, they seem like another rust trap to me! But the area where they fit is extremely difficult to get at for cleaning, even if you screw the lamps and mounting panel in instead of welding/rivetting as was originally done. (which is what I will be doing) So they might get fitted anyway!

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:34 pm 
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I had some plastic plates made up for me at my last work, using what was left of the steel originals as a template. Then used some thick-ish silicone sheeting and cut outthe boot.
I'm no longer at that place, but can share the photo's to perhaps kick-start some reverse engineering?
Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:24 am 
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Quote:
I had some plastic plates made up for me at my last work, using what was left of the steel originals as a template. Then used some thick-ish silicone sheeting and cut outthe boot.
I'm no longer at that place, but can share the photo's to perhaps kick-start some reverse engineering?
Image

Image

Image

They look just the ticket. It is an awkward area for sure


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:09 am 
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What we really need is some proper wheel arch mudguards in plastic to protect ALL that area. I might look into scrapyard choices, see if I can find something that is close enough to fit with minimal modification!

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:09 pm 
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Looking at mine it looks as if the plastic mushield has done it's job, I thought that the water ingress was probably from the front. If you think about the car driving down a motorway in the rain that area is right in the firing line. Although the bowl is sealed to the outer retaining panel and inner valence water, muck, salt etc must creep in from around the outer panel and just pool there, then over time the inevitable happens.

I wondered if a drain hole at the bottom of the eyebrow would help, just where it meets the inner valence.

Just a thought! :)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:44 pm 
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Quote:
Looking at mine it looks as if the plastic mushield has done it's job, I thought that the water ingress was probably from the front. If you think about the car driving down a motorway in the rain that area is right in the firing line. Although the bowl is sealed to the outer retaining panel and inner valence water, muck, salt etc must creep in from around the outer panel and just pool there, then over time the inevitable happens.

I wondered if a drain hole at the bottom of the eyebrow would help, just where it meets the inner valence.

Just a thought! :)
Yes but the nasty little afterthought of a plastic mudshield behind the headlight (which is only on post 76 cars) just transfers the rot point from the front of the wing to 4" back! Admittedly, that area of the wing is easier to repair than the front corner above the eyebrow - but still not ideal! A nice drain hole in the valance (it's not the eyebrow here) below the outer headlight can't hurt, I think I will incorporate that in mine!

Thinking about the seal that is the root of the OP, I can't actually see what good it is, since there is water and maybe mud on both sides of it and on later cars with the tacky mudshield, water on at least one side and probably both. And with plastic headlamp bowls, it's purpose is even more moot.

I reckon what is needed is a full arch shield, some decent drainage around the lights, the facility to easily remove the headlamp support panel with lamps to clean behind and finally lots of lovely Hammerite or similar coating both sides of the inner front panel, eyebrow etc. This is what I am going to aim for on mine, which will effectively be a daily driver so it'll need all the help it can get. I certainly don't want to be putting ANOTHER front end on it in 10 years time, i'll be over 70 by then!

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:55 pm 
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Completely agreed!

So as we know the headlamp support is held on by 4 spot welds and a tack weld. If these were replaced with some locating screws and captive nuts on the centre support bit (the outer tack isnt really needed) then all that needs to happen is to remove the trim panel and grille then 4 bolts/screws and the whole unit should come out nicely. Does that make any sense at all!? 8)

This would be especially useful if you have a halogen conversion as you'd get easy access to the bulbs.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:13 pm 
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Quote:
Completely agreed!

So as we know the headlamp support is held on by 4 spot welds and a tack weld. If these were replaced with some locating screws and captive nuts on the centre support bit (the outer tack isnt really needed) then all that needs to happen is to remove the trim panel and grille then 4 bolts/screws and the whole unit should come out nicely. Does that make any sense at all!? 8)

This would be especially useful if you have a halogen conversion as you'd get easy access to the bulbs.
Makes perfect sense to me! I guess rivnuts or similar would be ideal to secure the panel, 2 at the inner mounts 1 on the centre and 1 at the eyebrow should do nicely, though I am inclined to use the self drilling tapping bolts I used to secure my GRP wings whilst the Tiger Seal set! You'd only get to the inner bulbs easily, unless you cut the back out of the outer bowls, something I'm a bit loath to do as water can still get in the front, but bulb access is easy enough anyway, at least you don't have to take a wheel off to do it like a lot of moderns require!

The other beauty of bolting over welding is that you can get to everything to give it a thorough painting as you build it up and don't have to worry about the weld burning the paint off places you can't get to to repaint, seems like a win-win to me. I shall also be using self tappers and spire nuts to hold the lamps into the support panel rather than the el-cheapo pop rivets the factory used and the same for the grille fixing.

The way the factory built these cars is, after all, not the BEST way, merely the cheapest! If a little lateral thinking and the benefit of hindsight can improve the cars survival chances, i'm all for it and blow originality (not that I'M exactly bothered about that anyway :lol: )

Steve

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2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:33 pm 
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Came across this thread as I was searching for some information on the headlamp panels. Can someone explain where the self tapping screws are best located? Also, once I'm replacing the corroded metal bowls with plastic ones, do I need the seal at the back (the rings are crumbled....)?

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1972 Spitfire MK IV
1972 Stag
1980 Sprint

1962 Land Rover Series 2a
1961 Land Rover Series 2a (under restoration)
1983 Land Rover Series 3

1995 Suzuki Samurai SJ413

1972 MGB GT (banished for being too tight to fit in it)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Don't know if the seal is needed or not, hopefully soeone can answer your question.

Here's what I did with mine, silicone sheet and plastic, with the help of people in the factory where I worked at the time, they milled the plastic:

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:48 pm 
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I've left them out on the 1850 I'm restoring, as for the underside I'm using the original slash guards and copious amounts of a good quality flexible underseal.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:03 pm 
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Quote:
Don't know if the seal is needed or not, hopefully soeone can answer your question.

Here's what I did with mine, silicone sheet and plastic, with the help of people in the factory where I worked at the time, they milled the plastic:

Image

Image

Image
How did you fit the plastic rings? They don't look like rivets.

_________________
1972 Spitfire MK IV
1972 Stag
1980 Sprint

1962 Land Rover Series 2a
1961 Land Rover Series 2a (under restoration)
1983 Land Rover Series 3

1995 Suzuki Samurai SJ413

1972 MGB GT (banished for being too tight to fit in it)


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