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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:18 am 
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You may remember that a few weeks ago I asked for advice regarding a water leak that turned out to be the water pump. "Thank you" to all for that assistance.
Well, after ordering all the necessary parts and starting on the job, I then found it had a 6 vane cover over a 12 vane impeller.
Yesterday the new cover turned up so today, following Jon Tilsons (RIP) advice, step by step and armed with a workshop manual and a parts book, complete with detailed exploded view, my mechanic mate and I rebuilt the thing. It took nearly all day but eventually the job was finished and I started the car this afternoon. It started easily and just as soon as it was up to operating temp I noticed 2 things. One was that it is definitely running cooler. The other was that coolant is slowly seeping out of the slot beneath the water pump, where it was running out of before.
Could this be just residual left over coolant from inside the water pump housing area (wishful thinking) or have I overlooked something. I suppose that if its the latter, I'll need to import a new set of seals, O rings and gaskets, eh?
I'd really appreciate your advice on this please? While I'm still in the mood for fixing the thing. Hopefully its an easy fix.
Thanks & Cheers,
Rob

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"Little difficulties are made to swell until they fill our horizon, while the real big blessings of life are dwindled down to nothing".. HENRY FORD
1915 Ford "T" Speedster (Evangeline), 1921 Ford "T" Tourer (Anastasia), 1955 Zephyr 6 (Purdey), 1975 Dolomite SPRINT (Daisy), & a couple of moderns.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:50 am 
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Was the underside of the impeller where it touches the seal in top condition Rob? Normally these need turning flat in a lathe so the seal has a nice surface to run on.

Tony

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:41 am 
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Hi Tony,
Thanks for answering,
We looked at skimming the impeller face, but it's in really good shape. We chose instead to clean it and give it a rub down with a fine emery. BUT... my mechanic mate feels that, in hindsight, that wasn't a good choice.
I think I'll start again, and have it faced. At least now I know what's ahead for me.
Cheers,
Rob

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"Little difficulties are made to swell until they fill our horizon, while the real big blessings of life are dwindled down to nothing".. HENRY FORD
1915 Ford "T" Speedster (Evangeline), 1921 Ford "T" Tourer (Anastasia), 1955 Zephyr 6 (Purdey), 1975 Dolomite SPRINT (Daisy), & a couple of moderns.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:30 am 
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Rob

Please review the attached https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j ... 5567769590 info regarding machining the impellor about half way down the page

Paul

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:40 am 
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"Thanks" Paul,
Rob

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"Little difficulties are made to swell until they fill our horizon, while the real big blessings of life are dwindled down to nothing".. HENRY FORD
1915 Ford "T" Speedster (Evangeline), 1921 Ford "T" Tourer (Anastasia), 1955 Zephyr 6 (Purdey), 1975 Dolomite SPRINT (Daisy), & a couple of moderns.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:06 am 
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I'm just about to order some more bits from the UK and I have noticed that water pump seal prices vary quite a bit. £5.50 from Robsport, my preferred supplier, to around £9 from other vendors.
This got me wondering if the quality of the seals are different. If so, which seal should I buy?

Another question....
When we removed the original seal from the cage, it had been glued into place in the cage.
Is this necessary?

Thanks & Cheers,
Rob

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"Little difficulties are made to swell until they fill our horizon, while the real big blessings of life are dwindled down to nothing".. HENRY FORD
1915 Ford "T" Speedster (Evangeline), 1921 Ford "T" Tourer (Anastasia), 1955 Zephyr 6 (Purdey), 1975 Dolomite SPRINT (Daisy), & a couple of moderns.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:15 pm 
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Quote:
I'm just about to order some more bits from the UK and I have noticed that water pump seal prices vary quite a bit. £5.50 from Robsport, my preferred supplier, to around £9 from other vendors.
This got me wondering if the quality of the seals are different. If so, which seal should I buy?

Another question....
When we removed the original seal from the cage, it had been glued into place in the cage.
Is this necessary?

Thanks & Cheers,
Rob

Looks like there are two different kits - 1 kit has a built in graphite seal the other kit has the polo ring (as we call it)

Polo ring: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j ... 6714023727

Graphite seal: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j ... 6714023727

I would buy the one with the polo ring seal - the impellor will have to be machined and glued in.

Paul

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Thanks again Paul.
The parts are on their way.
Rob

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"Little difficulties are made to swell until they fill our horizon, while the real big blessings of life are dwindled down to nothing".. HENRY FORD
1915 Ford "T" Speedster (Evangeline), 1921 Ford "T" Tourer (Anastasia), 1955 Zephyr 6 (Purdey), 1975 Dolomite SPRINT (Daisy), & a couple of moderns.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:22 am 
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Polo ring is no longer available sadly. I spoke to Tony Hart about it a few months ago.

Tony

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:22 am 
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I took some time today to attack the WP removal, "again".
It came out of the block easily and when I removed the impeller, you can clearly see tiny polished marks where the seal has been rubbing against the underside face. You can also see where it hasn't. Very tell tale marks.
I was certain that a good clean up with a fine emery would be good enough. Obviously it wasn't. It was a short cut that turned into extra work. I wont make that mistake again and will ensure that the impeller gets a skim, should I ever be in this situation again.....hopefully NOT..
I'll post again once the parts have arrived and I've finished the job. Hopefully it'll be a positive outcome.
Cheers,
Rob

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"Little difficulties are made to swell until they fill our horizon, while the real big blessings of life are dwindled down to nothing".. HENRY FORD
1915 Ford "T" Speedster (Evangeline), 1921 Ford "T" Tourer (Anastasia), 1955 Zephyr 6 (Purdey), 1975 Dolomite SPRINT (Daisy), & a couple of moderns.
Member #2018011


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:15 am 
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I had a similar experience when I repaired my own slant water pump. Without any access to a lathe I was unable to re-face the underside of the impellor. I used an emery board to clean it up and then re-assembled.
There was a small amount of coolant seeping from the slot in the block but after about 90 mins/50-70 miles of running it stopped leaking and never had any problems again.

It was the graphite seal type and my thoughts are it just needed to bed-in. The graphite part is spring-loaded to get the correct amount of pressure between it and the impellor,too much and the graphite will fracture,not enough and it will not seal. Also there is an amount of flex in the rubber cup that the graphite sits in so if the fsce of the impellor was not nice and square to the shaft then the flex will take up that small amount of out-of-true running. You may have got away with running it in for longer but to be fully confident in the repair then facing the underside of the impellor is the way to go.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:43 pm 
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Rob,

Speaking from experience, when the impellor is machined just take off the absolute minimum from the seal face to clean it up fully as the more material is removed the less spring pressure is applied to the mechanical seal.
The whole water pump arrangement is way over complex though eh? I know they work well when they are sorted though. Good coolant will help to reduce the cast iron oxidizing on/next to the seal face when not in use. Another case for these engines to be run regularly I think.

A wee bit of sealant on the cage wouldn't go a miss but more importantly from my experience is the (interference?) fit between the brass cage and the bearing. The more times its on and off the fit becomes less interference and more clearance. In my younger days of slant engine repair my pump would literally drive up and try to push itself out of the cage against the ally cover. A careful application of retainer in this area helped prevent this from occurring and the old method of roughing up the contact face, (I had little money for a new pump).

Hope this helps...

Red.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:13 pm 
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"Thank You" Red.
Rob

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"Little difficulties are made to swell until they fill our horizon, while the real big blessings of life are dwindled down to nothing".. HENRY FORD
1915 Ford "T" Speedster (Evangeline), 1921 Ford "T" Tourer (Anastasia), 1955 Zephyr 6 (Purdey), 1975 Dolomite SPRINT (Daisy), & a couple of moderns.
Member #2018011


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:38 pm 
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A new 12 vane cover arrived, but when I installed it, I found that there was absolutely no clearance between it (anywhere around it) and the block, when the bolts were done up finger tight.
According to "the book" an additional 10 to 25 thou in gasket width should be applied, "to attain the correct running clearance."
Well, if I have absolutely no clearance to add the 10 to 25 to, how do I know what the overall gap should be? HELP.

I'm not 100% happy with the quality of the cover because of this. Additionally the casting is so poor that it wont allow me to put a socket or a ring spanner on one of the bolts. I looked at using a Dremmel to grind a larger space around the bolt hole for the bolt head, but on inspection it appears that the wall is not thick enough to allow it. I even considered grinding down the bolt head to a smaller size so I could fit a smaller socket on it, but instead, I've ordered some Allen headed bolts.

Your advice on the cover clearance will be very welcome.

Thanks & Cheers,
Rob

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"Little difficulties are made to swell until they fill our horizon, while the real big blessings of life are dwindled down to nothing".. HENRY FORD
1915 Ford "T" Speedster (Evangeline), 1921 Ford "T" Tourer (Anastasia), 1955 Zephyr 6 (Purdey), 1975 Dolomite SPRINT (Daisy), & a couple of moderns.
Member #2018011


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:05 am 
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There were some poor quality replica 12v covers made a few years ago; they are 'shiny' and whilst no metallurgist, look to me to be made from a softer grade of alloy.


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