The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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 Post subject: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Yesterday I took the 1300 Dolomite out for a run and after about 3 miles had a mechanical sounding clank when the clutch peddle just about reached the bottom of travel and again on the first part of coming back up. It cleared but left me concerned and after another 15 miles came back but was happening as a loud clicking noise as the clutch pedal was depressed and came up. In traffic off and on the clutch often and slowly it was more noticeable. Happens with the engine not running and if the peddle is depressed and released as possible quickly it doesn't make the noise or is reduced. Do it slowly and it will clack several times and I think I can just feel it when it does it. During the hot weather I got a creaking from the peddle but a good oiling got rid of this so I gave it another oiling but it made no difference. Checked the bulkhead then and now and that's sound. With the help of my son I was able to listen with the bonnet up and it sounds to be coming from the clutch itself.

The master, slave, and pipework was replaced in 2016. Clutch action seems fine I have not noticed any gear change issues. It can baulk first, always has, but I put that down to no synchro. No thrust bearing noises etc, it does not slip and will stall or pull away with handbrake on. There is no noticeable movement at the crankshaft pully when clutch is depressed.

I suspect diaphragm, or could it be the fork, if it was would it just not work at all. Any ideas please? Do I need to look at a new clutch? Would you drive it? Reason I ask that is I have no facilities, plus a bad back, to drop out the gearbox so will need to get it to someone to do it for me.

Was looking forward to going to a thoroughbred car club meet on Sunday with Kath and Roger but that's not going to happen now.


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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:07 pm 
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I had much the same noise from my clutch (1500) when I bought my car 17 odd years ago. As you say, it was a loud creaking as the clutch pedal was pressed and released. Hot or cold it did it all the time.

When I got round to sorting it, I fitted a new clutch kit and also a new pin for the clutch operating lever. This solved the problem, but I was never certain if it was the pressure plate fingers creaking or the lever!.

One thing to check however is that the pivot pin (ULC 2713) that holds the operating arm in the bellhousing hasn't dropped out. You can check this from the engine bay. A 'modified' pin is available with a capped head to prevent it slipping through the bellhousing and lever.. You may be able to knock it back if required.

Good luck with it and keep us posted.

MC


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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:38 am 
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Personally I would just tolerate the noise if the clutch is working, if it isn't something easy like changing the pin the connects the master cylinder to the pedal, it will be a gearbox out job. I would wait till the clutch needs changing.


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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Thanks for the replies. I was thinking along the lines of running it till things develop and things have in a way. My son went out to the garage yesterday afternoon and came back in and said it wasn't doing it. Whilst in there he tried the Dolly clutch and the noise didn't happen so I had a go. Sure enough it was silent, so I started it up, it engaged gears ok and moved out and reversed back in with no problems, so heat may be a factor.

Mat, if the pin ( I assume its the pivot that holds the slave push rod into the release lever) has dropped out would the clutch still work?

If I get a chance I will take it round the block later today and if that's ok possibly go to the meet tomorrow and see what happens, unless someone suggests different.


Thanks Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Just back from a 20 mile run covering market town traffic moorland roads with hills and a tourist village to give as much variation in conditions as possible. 15 miles all ok, 16th mile first sign of the clicking and then intermittent until last mile when it came back. On returning to the garage noise much louder with the car door open, so not coming from the peddle and the best way to describe is it sounds like a dry spring from a creak to loud clicks and clanks during the clutch travel both in and out.
Just checked invoices in its history and last clutch fitted 06 1994 for a cost of £256.00 so maybe new one on the cards unless someone can give an indication to what it could be and cure. Cant see this noise being from the pin comming out but I will get this checked out asap. As before gear changes smooth and so was the clutch action.


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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:10 pm 
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Hi Bob.

It sounds exactly the same as what I experienced. I guess if the pin does drop out, there is potential for the lever to move around in the bellhousing and possibly jam?

The pin can be checked easily, it is on the O/S to the rear of the bellhousing. Looking at mine the pin is just about level with the top of the housing.

I'm sure it will last ages like that - mine was probably doing it for years before I purchased it. I'm not very patient with noises though, so decided to replace the clutch, pin etc. Not a 5 minute job unfortunately. If you do decide to do it I think the general consensus is to remove the engine and gearbox together rather than take the box out through the car.

Kind Regards

MC


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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:50 am 
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Thanks Mat

Checked pin this morning at its protruding up in a counter bored hole and on pushing and prodding with a screw driver it was solid and not moving so looks ok. Clutch again silent this morning so heat and use is having a definite effect. Decided not to go to the meet and will look into a clutch change.


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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Did you check the axial bearings only by depressing the clutch or did you pull and push the cranckshaft manually?

Jeroen

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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:34 am 
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Hi Jeroen

Just looked to see if there was any movement when the clutch was depressed. Knowing you that wouldn't be a question you asked lightly, do you think it could be thrust bearings. It only happens when the car is hot after a few miles and only started suddenly this week. Yesterday it was louder than before with the clicking and clacking sound become more of a clicking and clanking, the clanking more towards the end of the return stroke. If I depress and release the clutch as fast as I possibly can there is no noise and now its cold no noise. As I mentioned in an earlier post it sounds like a dry spring.

Bob

Using a large spanner and screwdriver I have just tried levering between the bottom pully and block and couldnt see any decearnable end float movement.


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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:46 pm 
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The creaking / clicking noise you hear is the diaphragm spring fingers sliding over the contact face of the release bearing when the clutch is depressed. The diaphragm fingers move in an arc, the release bearing just straight in and out, hence the shallow wear groove on the fingers of a worn clutch cover. Eventually it will let go of course, but they can make that noise for many thousands of miles without anything other than an annoying noise.

The fulcrum pin that Matt describes will result in a completely non-working clutch if it drops out. Been there.... It is actually possible to use the cap-headed pin to push out the old fulcrum pin from above, meaning no dismantling required to fit it, then no more danger of it falling out!

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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Thanks for that Jod
I had thought that it was the diaphragm and a friend of mine confirmed it yesterday also. He is a semi retired motor engineer who designed engine management systems for MGR, BMW and Peugeot, keeps his hand in now doing reprogramming and ecu repairs. Started life on mechanical side with cars like ours and he came back off hols so I was able to pick his brains. Straight away confirmed what you say but was a bit more cautious on using it. Started looking into a clutch but need someone to fit it, he cant, like me has a bad back but if I get stuck we may have a go.


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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Whereabouts are you Rob?

Not too far and i'll take it on!

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Noise from clutch
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:05 am 
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Thanks Steve

A bit to far away unfortunately, Bradford West Yorks. Been in touch with a couple of local classic garages, one ill and too busy for now, other not answering calls or emails so looks like he's not interested. Shame because he comes highly recommended and used by our mag editor. There is another very close to me who specialises in classic Citroens and has a collection in an old showroom of them and Rolls Royce. Always an MG outside but cant find anyone who's used him or recommendations one way or the other. May have to approach him. Got some other little bits to do also underneath, rack gaiters, and a split ball joint rubber. Got these ready to go off the club. Thinking that work required and clutch change isn't that challenging he may get it.

Problem I have if my backs ok to start crawling about underneath it may well not be too finish, and at the moment I couldn't even consider starting it.

Bob


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