The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

My Dolomite is nearing completion, a year after it got run into, and the last major task I have to do is fit the headlamp surrounds (724263/4), headlamp bowls, etc., and headlamp bezels (817388/9). The problem is the guy who took all that off and put some of the bits in a box has given up work through ill health, and neither I nor the painter, know what goes where or how.

I've got the Repair Operations Manual and the parts catalogue, but neither are of much help with the headlamp surrounds. So can anybody point at anything showing how they are held in and what the fixings look like (and maybe where to get, cos some look a bit knackered).

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).

Hello Graham, I have posted a link below that takes you to James467 project RUK that shows a series of pictures when he re fitted the headlamps. Things to note are:- only the outer headlamps have bowls and these should press into a rubber ring attached to the panel behind the headlamp fitting panel. The object being to stop mud etc coming forward and causing corrosion. As far as I am aware the rubber ring and its fixing are not available --- unless anyone knows diferently. I have made replacement rubber rings using butyl rubber pond liner. I am making replacement fixing rings from 5mm nylon sheet. The inner headlamps have no bowls. On the lamp fixing panel are two rectangular brackets in the centre between the holes for the lamps. They have a slot that takes a white plastic/nylon fitting that clips in and which takes the securing screws for the headlamp surround. The bottom one is almost flush to the bracket but the top one protrudes approx 1/2 inch (13mm) so that the surround ends up square and not slanted back. As far as I am aware they are not available but my replacement panels from Rimmer Bros came with old second hand ones fitted. Countersunk self tappers are used to secure the surround.

Hope this helps
Chris

https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... ng#p302663

Hi Chris, Thanks for the link, that will be some help. I'm still at a loss, however, for how to mount to the car the flat plate with a step shown in the second picture in the linked thread and as 724263 in the attached file from the parts cat. I'm assuming that if it had been welded in place, the guy who fitted the wings and eyebrows, etc., would have welded it then.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).

Graham, part no 724263 which is the headlamp mounting panel should indeed be welded in place. Originally they were spot welded but I do know others on the forum have screwed/bolted them in situe but whilst I can see how this is done on the inner fixing point I am struggling as to how to do this on the outer point. As I am doing the same thing to mine at the moment(fitting headlamps) I will take a look this afternoon & see if something makes sense! I will take my camera with me and try to post a picture.
regards
Chris

Hi Chris, Any help on this is most appreciated. I can't go look if the headlamp surround / mounting panel will weld in without problems from/to the new paint.

It will all go better when I can get the car back from the painter. But while I'll drive it in the day with no headlights or sidelights, I won't drive it with no brake lights or indicators, and none of them work yet. Most of the bulb holders seem to have lost connection between the bulb earth pin and the prongs - I've ordered a new set. Also, I don't know what the painter's done, but what sidelights are working will all flash when the right indicator is put on - must be earthing back through them somehow.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).

At the outer mounting, to the vertical face of the eyebrow, there should be a little right angle plate welded to the eyebrow to attach the headlamp support panel to. This is just visible in one of James' pics. Then there is a centre support bracket which is just visible (though not clear) on your exploded parts diagram it's on the inner front panel just inboard of the outer headlamp holes. This bracket is NOT sold separately (yet, i'm trying to persuade Alun to take it up with our fabricator as I need a couple!) and is nearly always chopped on removal. as is the bracket on the eyebrow. Actually it's not too hard to fabricate either and i'm just being lazy. Note, if you have the nasty Rimmers eyebrows that barely fit and cost a fortune, this outer bracket is NOT on them, you only get it with NOS (or very careful removal of originals if you're lucky and they haven't dissolved)

This headlamp support panel WAS originally spot/tack welded in place, but me and several others on here have elected to bolt them on with tapping bolts or screws and spire nuts, as it then makes it only a few minutes work to completely remove both lamps to clean out the otherwise unreachable area behind the panel. I likewise and for similar reasons, secure the headlamp bowls to the support panel with ST screws and spire nuts, rather than the original pop rivets.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.

Graham, Everything Carledo says explains it perfectly. If you go back to the resto link (which takes you to page15) and go back one page, scroll down to pictures 17,18,19 on that page, and the fitting is shown very well. I also attach two photo`s (I hope) of a replacement n/s headlampmount onto which I have stuck two cardboard brackets I made blue peter style. They are front and rear views. The smaller outer one need to be 1inch (25mm) between bends the larger centre one needs to be 2 inch (50mm) from bend to end. This then gives the correct spacing between the two panels. The red dots I marked are suggested fixing points (holes /welds/screws) of your choice.
Hope this helps Chris

I think I'm going this way, with spire nuts, when I get the car delivered - got the painter checking if I have the club ones or something gRimmer and a bracket needs to be made. But, not having the bits here, what size spire nuts should I buy, and will I need them for the bowls if they're plastic ones?
Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).

You can probably just drill 3mm holes for the support panel and use self tappers (bolts or screws) to secure it. But the bowls need a spire nut as the pre-drilled holes in the support bracket are for the stock fitting pop rivets and are too big for a screw. Moreover, you'll need a specific spire nut slightly longer than standard to do the job. I do keep these in stock but they're down at the workshop. I'll photograph and measure them when I go in tomorrow. I got mine from a trader at Stoneliegh, but they should be available from any decent fastener supplier.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.

It turns out I did get the gRimmer ones, so the holes for the bowls are small enough I can get self tappers in - though they are all only near to where they should be and it has been a bit of a pain.

I've made the centre brackets from a pair of poundland's best angle brackets and used spire clips to hold both ends. I shall be treating it all to a coat of yellow smooth hammerite later. Not sure what to do about the two ends: the end under the grill comes close to the edge of the front panel, but I don't think there's enough meat for the clips. Maybe if I just drill the car with a 1/8th" hole and put number 8's in it'll be ok. The other end may need a bracket.

But what, oh venerable OldEngineer, do you mean by "cardboard" and "blue peter style"?

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).

This is CAD, blue peter style! Stands for Cardboard Aided Design! The standby of steel fabricators everywhere, make a cardboard template from cornflake packet and translate it to steel! Even the guys on Project Binky use it!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.

Ah! The cardboard parts are within my capabilities, and I managed to shorten the angle bracket - it was 1 3/4" in my case, but those capabilities are unbending when it comes to the metal working. There're those at work who don't understand how one can go through life without even the basic tools, like a lathe or a milling machine. But I've managed to muddle through so far.
I may find some U section that's just under what I need and some washers. Or, I just though, I've got some 10mm O.D. stainless pipe I got for fixing the pipe through the inlet manifold on the herald (and then decided to go with copper it fits inside the rusty steel one, the end of which snapped off while I was changing the fan belt). Maybe I can use a length of that, some penny washers, and a long enough setscrew.
Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).

Got the RH panel mounted well enough to offer up the other bits fit and found the outer black bezel wouldn't go between the top of the chrome rim of the inner light and the under edge of the front panel. I tried moving the mounting holes on the gRimmer's panel, at least some of which can't be in the right place anyway, and slotting the holes in the mounting for the headlamp ring. But that didn't do enough to help.

The whole set on the left was buggered in the crash (how that happened without smashing the glass is one of them mysteries), the outer on the right was rotted beyond use, and the fixed mounting point on the adjustment system on the inner had come apart at some point in the process. So I just got 4 of the plastic bowl sets with the intention of cutting the backs off the inner ones - which I've done with one of them. So the lack of gap at the top might be down to that I'm using parts meant for the outer on the inner, or it might be down to the fit of the front panel and eyebrow, etc. I'm not as far along with the left side, but it doesn't look like it's as bad.

Question is, has anyone else used the Wipac plastic bowl sets for the inner lights and did the bezels fit ok?

Oh BTW, I've fixed the problem with the bezel by taking 1/8" off the fixed mounting on the bowl (which is now a plastic backing ring) for the chrome ring. So that's now sat 1/8" closer to the plate. That seem to have cured it with still about 1/4" of chrome ring protruding through the bezel. I guess I'll do the same on the other side so they look the same. There looks to be loads of adjustment left, and it's only the main beam. So as long it don't affect air traffic, I can't see adjustment is going to be a problem for the MOT, considering its not a legal requirement for the car anyway.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).