The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:49 pm 
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The common failure of these mounts is that the rubber delaminates from the mounting plate and the currently available mounts do not last very long before they fail.

As a result I have been attempting to re-bond some of the original failed mounts without any success but yesterday I used some gorilla epoxy and it seems to do the job. I tried it on two mounts. One I had managed to completely de-bond the rubber from the mounting plate but the second one was in the main still attached so I cleaned it up the best I could between the rubber and the mounting plate. I then clamped them up tight after putting gorilla epoxy on the surfaces that I wished to bond. This evening I have attempted to break the bonds but have failed. Previously I have used a number of different glues, including gorilla glue, but I have been able to break the bonds. It think it is well worth giving it a try so do not throw out your old mounts. If you do try this please provide feed back.

Another approach I am looking at is to use a Land Rover Defender mount type ANR 1808.
Image

It would require a 15mm thick mounting plate with a M10 tread tapped in the centre to make up the distance. See my wooden mock up in the photo. What do you think of the concept?

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:46 am 
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I doubt your plan or gluing will work, sure it might hold on the bench but with the stresses of an engine running and vibrating; not to mention the heat in the engine bay. The glues you can buy for home use are just not meant for this application.

I have done a little research and companies that make these kind of mounts seem to attach the rubber during the moulding process. Other methods could be used but if epoxy actually worked, companies would use it to save costs.

How safety critical your mod is, I don't know. I know that engine mounts fail but I am not sure I would want to drive a car knowing the mounts were all held on by gorilla glue. Having both mounts shear off completely could be unpleasant.

Your other idea of using mounts from other vehicles is far more promising. It probably won't be just a case of finding the right size mount, rubber has different grades. So you would have to test for vibration issues and check that the mount was designed for similar loadings in its original application.

Sprint gearbox mounts have been successfully swapped for a mount from another car, so it can be done, it would be a case of trial and error.

I don't mean to pour cold water on your ideas, people like yourself willing to try new things help keep are cars on the roads. I just think the mount substitution path is the one to take.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:46 pm 
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I know one of our forum users, but not a signed up member, has manufactured his own. In his collection of Triumphs he has a Standard to which he has fitted a Herald engine. There were no compatible engine mounts available so he manufactured his own. He fabricated up the metal work then made wooden moulds then mixed and poured the poly in. They work and have survived with much higher use, its used as a daily driver by his daughter, than my Rimmer's supplied 4 years ago. We did have a brief discussion the other week after I found mine deteriorating and it may be possible that he could give advice. He was certainly saying when his 1300 needs them he will look to making his own. He is a very knowledgeable engineer and was the director of a heritage railway so has one of those we can solve this and do it minds.

I will try to get hold of him and ask.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:07 pm 
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I actually used the LR mounts when my Toledo had an ohv engine.
I used the metal plate that had become detached. Drilled a hole and welded an M10 but, plus a couple of short lengths of small box section. Not exactly pretty, but worked perfectly well in s far that was being used hard for all sorts of basic motorsport as well as everyday transport.
Current tr7 engine is using Jag engine mounts, which may he easier as they have a plate very very similar to the dolly plate, and the other side is a 1/2" unf tapped hole. A bit big to fit to the engine? But a stepped stud plus spacer washer would sort that.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:28 pm 
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On my Sprint I kept the original rubbish BL one on the exhaust side as is and reworked the induction side one and fabricated a Ford Granada Cosworth one which then meant the ridiculous steady bar could be thrown away. I know many of you want to keep our cars standard but some of the engineering is frankly not up to scratch. Harsh but true!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:38 pm 
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On my Sprint I kept the original rubbish BL one on the exhaust side as is and reworked the induction side one and fabricated a Ford Granada Cosworth one which then meant the ridiculous steady bar could be thrown away. I know many of you want to keep our cars standard but some of the engineering is frankly not up to scratch. Harsh but true!
I don't really see the problem with the steady bar. Many modern cars have top and bottom engine mounts. It is a sensible engineering solution because it is easy to resist twisting forces that way. The same reason a car with a solid roof is stiffer than a convertible.

It is a slightly odd looking setup but the idea behind it is sound.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:39 am 
Im in the same boat with this situation, Mounts on my 1500HL have both failed.

I have ordered 2x replacements from TD Fitchets but i would like a more permanent replacement for the future.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:08 pm 
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On my Sprint I kept the original rubbish BL one on the exhaust side as is and reworked the induction side one and fabricated a Ford Granada Cosworth one which then meant the ridiculous steady bar could be thrown away. I know many of you want to keep our cars standard but some of the engineering is frankly not up to scratch. Harsh but true!
I don't really see the problem with the steady bar. Many modern cars have top and bottom engine mounts. It is a sensible engineering solution because it is easy to resist twisting forces that way. The same reason a car with a solid roof is stiffer than a convertible.

It is a slightly odd looking setup but the idea behind it is sound.
I agree that most modern cars have a steady bar at the top of their engines but that is because they are front wheel drive and hence have to cope with the full torque of the drive directly which on a rear wheel drive is absorbed by the live axle. However the modern mounts are much larger than the almost solid short rod as used by BL on a Sprint. Just have a look under the bonnet of a modern rear drive car like a Porsche 944 or a BMW and there are no torque bars needed as their engine mounts are well designed.

You say the idea is sound and though I agree that it is a solution but my point is it is only needed because poor engineering in the main mount has made it so. It is like throwing an anchor out the back of your car to stop it because the brakes are not up to it :D

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:32 pm 
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Quote:
On my Sprint I kept the original rubbish BL one on the exhaust side as is and reworked the induction side one and fabricated a Ford Granada Cosworth one which then meant the ridiculous steady bar could be thrown away. I know many of you want to keep our cars standard but some of the engineering is frankly not up to scratch. Harsh but true!
I don't really see the problem with the steady bar. Many modern cars have top and bottom engine mounts. It is a sensible engineering solution because it is easy to resist twisting forces that way. The same reason a car with a solid roof is stiffer than a convertible.

It is a slightly odd looking setup but the idea behind it is sound.
I agree that most modern cars have a steady bar at the top of their engines but that is because they are front wheel drive and hence have to cope with the full torque of the drive directly which on a rear wheel drive is absorbed by the live axle. However the modern mounts are much larger than the almost solid short rod as used by BL on a Sprint. Just have a look under the bonnet of a modern rear drive car like a Porsche 944 or a BMW and there are no torque bars needed as their engine mounts are well designed.

You say the idea is sound and though I agree that it is a solution but my point is it is only needed because poor engineering in the main mount has made it so. It is like throwing an anchor out the back of your car to stop it because the brakes are not up to it :D
To be fair isn't part of the problem the slant design of the engine? Basically a V8 missing the other half for even weight distribution, which is going to make balancing it on subframe a bit of an issue.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:35 pm 
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I don't really see the problem with the steady bar. Many modern cars have top and bottom engine mounts. It is a sensible engineering solution because it is easy to resist twisting forces that way. The same reason a car with a solid roof is stiffer than a convertible.

It is a slightly odd looking setup but the idea behind it is sound.
I agree that most modern cars have a steady bar at the top of their engines but that is because they are front wheel drive and hence have to cope with the full torque of the drive directly which on a rear wheel drive is absorbed by the live axle. However the modern mounts are much larger than the almost solid short rod as used by BL on a Sprint. Just have a look under the bonnet of a modern rear drive car like a Porsche 944 or a BMW and there are no torque bars needed as their engine mounts are well designed.

You say the idea is sound and though I agree that it is a solution but my point is it is only needed because poor engineering in the main mount has made it so. It is like throwing an anchor out the back of your car to stop it because the brakes are not up to it :D
To be fair isn't part of the problem the slant design of the engine? Basically a V8 missing the other half for even weight distribution, which is going to make balancing it on subframe a bit of an issue.
Possibly however the Vauxhall Firenza had a slant engine and they had sensible engine mounts. BL were tied down to use stuff out the parts bin I reckon and so the engineers couldn't do what they wished. Just think if they never made that dreadful Marina (Morris 1000 reborn) they would have had some money to do the right thing. We are stuck with a poor design and thats not going to change.

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