The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:12 pm 
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Location: Forest of Dean
Part of the problem is the what else there was going through workshops at the time. Now it is absolutely normal for a car to require studs that can only be used once and have a head torquing sequence that reads like War And Peace. Comparable cars at the time and especially other triumphs would run fine with a cornflake packet for a head gasket. The time required to do the job properly costs.

We (the club) know you need to use a new gasket every time on a Sprint. We know you need to torque it down in multiple steps and in the right order (didn't help that the Factory books had 2 different sequences in). We know you're wasting your money if you go cheap on the gasket. We know it needs a retorque after a couple of heat cycles. It doesn't matter a fig if some clamping force is 'lost' due to the angled studs if the direct clamping force is adequate and the right sequence is used to avoid the head shifting. Dowel it if you're going racing for extra security.

As for the pump, KISS may have been the goal. A snapped fan belt shouldn't stop a a slant like it does a Triumph straight pot. Most of the problems with pumps originate in quality (or lack thereof) in the seals & bearings or over worn parts. If your layshaft is rattling round in the block like a pea in a drum of course it is going to knock seven bells out of even the best pump seals. Same for the pump foot sleeve, if it is worn the pump seals don't stand a chance. Do the layshaft bearings and pump foot sleeve and your (good quality) pump will last just fine.

Suspension arms - replace the bushes with polyurethane as hard as concrete and hoon it round a track and yes you might just suffer metal fatigue. Not a hard one to avoid that.

Stags have issues too, probably more than a sprint, but they are all solved problems thanks to the work of the club. Look at the value of them these days. All the major issues with Dolomites including sprints are solved problems if you adhere to the wisdom of the club. This club.

_________________
1978 Pageant Sprint - the rustomite, 1972 Spitfire IV - sprintfire project, 1968 Valencia GT6 II - little Blue, 1980 Vermillion 1500HL - resting. 1974 Sienna 1500TC, Mrs Weevils big brown.


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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:15 pm 
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it is good seeing articles about the cars, IE Goodwood and it also gets the cars in the public eye again which is also good for the future of the car and club


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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:22 pm 
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There are some good points here about cars getting too valuable.

You may envy Ford, original Mini and old Land Rover values. I am guessing you don't envy the fact owners of such cars are targets of criminal gangs because the cars and parts are worth nicking.


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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
If Dolomites were as valuable as Escorts, I for one, wouldn't be able to afford even a project to restore! My Toledo and Sprint, between them cost me £575. Both bought as projects. I've spent a fair bit on them since then with the Toledo owing me, to date, around £4k and the Sprint, not yet finished, a tad less, but with another couple of grand yet to spend. I don't resent any of this and current values seem to indicate that were I to sell them, (fat chance!) I wouldn't LOSE money and might even make a small profit. Plus I've had 8 years motoring, every mile of it great fun, from the Toledo. You can't put a price on that!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:43 pm 
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Quote:
If Dolomites were as valuable as Escorts, I for one, wouldn't be able to afford even a project to restore!
I was going to say the same thing, I wouldn't have three 1300's and two Dolomites (two of the 1300s are usable) if they were £20k each. I also wouldn't be restoring an 1850 and the owner would have his second 1850 if the were that expensive.
I like the fact that the last seven or 8 I've bought have been £FREE-250 and I have been able to save them when no one else wanted them, then some complain because I got them cheap and want money when I've rebuilt the !. ok so they aren't cheap to restore, take a lot of time and some parts especially good quality are difficult to get but they will live on.

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Some people are like Slinky's, they serve no real purpose in life but bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.


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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:55 pm
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Location: Maidstone
Cars are to be driven and enjoyed. I don’t like to see them as static status symbols. Too high a value just discourages owners from driving them I reckon.
Good luck to anyone who likes, and can afford an RS Ford, but I take my hat off to the owner who actually uses their car as intended.

I think Dolomites are steadily increasing in value, but I’d rather they stayed in the unfancied bracket, so that I can afford to keep mine on the road. I’ve found in the past that when a certain marque of car becomes valuable, the parts suppliers like to increase their prices accordingly too!


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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:44 am 
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I love my Dolomite and can’t see me ever selling it, but if it was worth Escort money I wouldn’t have been able to afford it in the first place... Being an ex-Ford fanatic with many Escorts / Capris in my past, I can say I wouldn’t swap my rather quick (even today), comfortable, very stylish Dolly for any Ford right now - even if I was rich :D

I would however sell my Dolly AND both my Grandmothers for a decent, Sprint engined GT6 MK3...! Now there’s a Triumph that makes Ford money, along with the Stag and TR6...

The good old British tradition of self depreciation:
Back in the early 70s my mother used to rally a BL mini, and occasionally a Mexico (a woman rally driver in the 70s was rarer than hen’s teeth but that’s another story). She preferred the nimble Mini to the boy racer Fords with interesting rear pendulum steering (ie they had a boot and some had 80/20 weight distribution :lol: ), and my parents had both a Spitfire and Dolomite Sprint as daily drivers, so I was surprised by her reaction of “why the hell have you bought one of those, all British cars are rubbish!?” to my nice yellow machine. To be fair, her experience of factory new Dolomite Sprint ownership was clueless dealer support and a car that was in the garage more than out. She did admit that when that Sprint was running well, it took a very sorted Ford to keep up with her, and we’re talking RS1600 or Twin Cam, not the rough RS2000 lump (her words - no offence meant to Ford fans!), and believes that had Triumph made a 2-door Sprint without the wood trim and a stripped out racing effect interior, the story could have been very different...

Ford also built rubbish cars - as did everyone in the 70s / 80s, but Ford had bigger motorsport budgets, and advertising campaigns that perfectly catered for would be road racers. Mum’s next car after the Sprint was a Mk2 Escort - and at only 5 years old I distinctly remember the Macphersons creating a matching pair of power bulges on the bonnet when the inner wings disintegrated! :lol:

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Bradman.

ImageImage

Current classic cars: 1974 Triumph Dolomite (Honey), 1978 Triumph Dolomite Sprint (Holly)
Current modern cars: 2003 BMW Z4 roadster 3.0 (Marty), 2010 Mini One (Rusty), 2018 VW Touran (Jack Sparrow)
Past classic cars: 1972 Triumph Spitfire IV with 2.0 I6 (Polly), 1972 Ford Escort 1100L with RS2000 running gear (Nora Batty)


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 Post subject: Okay,.......
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:22 pm
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Location: Caithness, Scotland
A couple of months ago,
on the Official Triumph Dolomite Facebook page there is a thread concerning an early Sprint offered
for sale on ebay in Yorkshire.
At the start of this thread one individual stated that this car is a reshell,
this being stated without any evidence other than some extremely feeble argument about the position of aftermarket door mirrors :shock: .....
this resulted in a no sale auction, despite Mike Barker confirming that this car is genuine.
That one comment has caused thousands to be knocked off the potential value of this car.

The name of said individual I think is familiar, so he may even be a club member?
No doubt he is very pleased with himself.


Having thought about what happened, I made the decision to leave that group permanently.



Ian.

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 Post subject: Re: Okay,.......
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Location: Huntingdon
Quote:
A couple of months ago,
on the Official Triumph Dolomite Facebook page there is a thread concerning an early Sprint offered
for sale on ebay in Yorkshire.
At the start of this thread one individual stated that this car is a reshell,
this being stated without any evidence other than some extremely feeble argument about the position of aftermarket door mirrors :shock: .....
this resulted in a no sale auction, despite Mike Barker confirming that this car is genuine.
That one comment has caused thousands to be knocked off the potential value of this car.

The name of said individual I think is familiar, so he may even be a club member?
No doubt he is very pleased with himself.


Having thought about what happened, I made the decision to leave that group permanently.



Ian.
You mean saying "...almost certainly re-shelled." without absolutely any reason to say it whatsoever as a random uninformed opinion? Well it's the internet where people give their opinions and others take it as fact. I understand your reason to quit the Facebook group, I've stepped back from this group for similar reasons.

_________________
Current fleet: Triumph Dolomite Sprint '75, Daihatsu Fourtrak, Honda CG125, Yamaha Fazer 600, Shetland 570

Disposal fleet: Golf GTi 16v MK3 Anniversary

Past fleet: Triumph 2000, Lancia Beta Coupe, BL Mini Clubman, Austin Metro, Vauxhall Cavalier MK1 & MK2, Renault 18 D, Rover 216 GSI, Honda Accord (most expensive car purchase, hated it on pickup from dealer, was made out of magnetic metal as only car I've ever been crashed into, 4 times), Golf GTi MK3 16v x 3


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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:50 pm 
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I think as owners we do tend to talk the values down, I have been accused of this by members who say I undervalue my 1300. It had a professional insurance valuation done last year at a surprising £5500, but if I put it up for sale I expect it would probably fetch less than half of that. The arguments for affordability do hold up and frankly I probably wouldn't own one if they were silly Ford money. But the low values do mean that cars that could be restored get broken for parts, they are worth more in bits. If you haven't got the skills, health, premises, etc. to do your own restoration or minor body repairs the cost to get it done professionally in relation to the value makes it a no on unless you have deep pockets and your love for the car out ways costs. Last year I was quoted £3500/ £7000 dependent on how far I wanted to go to get some cosmetic work done. Far more than the car is worth so not happening. I know it could probably be done cheaper, it was a fact finding exercise, but also realise the cars value will be easily exceeded by not to much work.

Last week it was MOTd with no advisories but the tester said that it was starting to show rust a bit and what was I thinking of doing. I dont Know. We discussed it and came to the sad conclusion that now everything is solid and sound and I would probably run it until it became uneconomical to keep up. Then break it or possibly use it as a donor and spend less money on another better Dolomite than it would cost to restore this one. A sad day for a former multi best in show winner but if values were better the decision would probably be different.

I believe that there is room for an upward movement in values, especially for the much ignored lesser models, so that they can still remain affordable especially against the "competition" but so there is more chance that they will survive beyond the next few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Okay,.......
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:38 pm 
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Quote:
That one comment has caused thousands to be knocked off the potential value of this car.
No it hasn't, what a load of rubbish.

If a potential buyer wants to back out of the sale due to reading a solitary comment from a random bloke on Facebook who offered no info as to why they think that's the case that's their decision, but it has no impact on the overall value of the car. If it was proven that the car was a reshell that might have had an effect, but regardless the car in question was an older restoration anyway so it's worth as an "original example" was long gone and it wasn't being sold as such either.
I reckon that it is far more likely the buyer assumed the car was a fairly original example based on the condition and changed their mind on buying it once they found out it was an older restoration using panels from a younger car.

All increasing values will achieve is attracting the sort of buyer who is looking for the most financial investment possible and will be knocking money off for painting the bolt heads the wrong colour and having the wrong hose clips fitted... Early, matching numbers cars will be worth more and people will start trying to scam people by dressing up later and modified cars as original examples. Perfectly good cars will be worth thousands less than others as they are no longer as worthy as an investment.

_________________
1976 Triumph Dolomite 1850HL "Trevor, the Tenaciously Terrible Triumph" - Off the road for many years, currently being fixed very slowly.
1977 Triumph Dolomite 1300 "Daisy, the Dilapidated Dolomite of Disaster" - Engine exploded, still a dilapidated disaster, being repaired for 2019.
1983 Triumph Acclaim L "Angus, the Arguably Adequate Acclaim - On the road as a daily driver.


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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:38 pm 
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There needs to be a happy balance somewhere. If our cars were virtually worthless most of them would simply be crushed as soon as they needed repairing because their owners wouldn't be able to justify spending anything on them as the cost of repair would exceed the value of the car. At the other extreme, if our cars became enormously valuable, they would just end up being trailered to shows, which also presents obstacles to the long-term survival of these cars. The cars need to be used - if parts don't wear out (e.g. brake pads), no one will buy new parts. If no one buys new parts, retailers won't stock them - let alone invest in remanufacturing them. With less new parts available, the cost of repairing the cars increases, rendering the cars unviable.
We need to focus on keeping as many of them on the road as we can, however much we perceive them to be worth.

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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:50 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Kent
Quote:
I think as owners we do tend to talk the values down, I have been accused of this by members who say I undervalue my 1300. It had a professional insurance valuation done last year at a surprising £5500, but if I put it up for sale I expect it would probably fetch less than half of that. The arguments for affordability do hold up and frankly I probably wouldn't own one if they were silly Ford money. But the low values do mean that cars that could be restored get broken for parts, they are worth more in bits. If you haven't got the skills, health, premises, etc. to do your own restoration or minor body repairs the cost to get it done professionally in relation to the value makes it a no on unless you have deep pockets and your love for the car out ways costs. Last year I was quoted £3500/ £7000 dependent on how far I wanted to go to get some cosmetic work done. Far more than the car is worth so not happening. I know it could probably be done cheaper, it was a fact finding exercise, but also realise the cars value will be easily exceeded by not to much work.

Last week it was MOTd with no advisories but the tester said that it was starting to show rust a bit and what was I thinking of doing. I dont Know. We discussed it and came to the sad conclusion that now everything is solid and sound and I would probably run it until it became uneconomical to keep up. Then break it or possibly use it as a donor and spend less money on another better Dolomite than it would cost to restore this one. A sad day for a former multi best in show winner but if values were better the decision would probably be different.

I believe that there is room for an upward movement in values, especially for the much ignored lesser models, so that they can still remain affordable especially against the "competition" but so there is more chance that they will survive beyond the next few years.
i think the above and Alun has summed it up perfectly, we need a happy balance, sprints are well worth investing in but the lesser models just need to creep up a small amount to keep them from being broken or scrapped, this will in turn keep parts suppliers investing in manufacturing helping us all keep them on the road.

i dont think its about investments, most of us enjoy the experience of classic car ownership.

Pete


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 Post subject: Re: Okay,.......
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:20 pm
Posts: 1261
Location: Huntingdon
Quote:
Quote:
That one comment has caused thousands to be knocked off the potential value of this car.
No it hasn't, what a load of rubbish.

Proves my point, opinion stated as fact.

_________________
Current fleet: Triumph Dolomite Sprint '75, Daihatsu Fourtrak, Honda CG125, Yamaha Fazer 600, Shetland 570

Disposal fleet: Golf GTi 16v MK3 Anniversary

Past fleet: Triumph 2000, Lancia Beta Coupe, BL Mini Clubman, Austin Metro, Vauxhall Cavalier MK1 & MK2, Renault 18 D, Rover 216 GSI, Honda Accord (most expensive car purchase, hated it on pickup from dealer, was made out of magnetic metal as only car I've ever been crashed into, 4 times), Golf GTi MK3 16v x 3


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 Post subject: Re: Dolomite values
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
Posts: 5008
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Since there is no chance of either of my cars being taken as original, I only build them for the pleasure of driving the wheels off them, don't give big rat's nether regions about their values and won't be breathing when they are sold, it's not really worth me commenting further!

It's nice (for my widow) that values are climbing, even if only in line with inflation, it means her nest egg is secure. That'll do me!

As far as I can see, NOBODY really makes money from owning classic cars, sure an Escort can make £25k, but it has to be absolutely perfect to do it and with bits like front indicator lamps being £70 a pair, it ain't easy there either! As others have said, when the car's value goes up, so does the price of parts!

I'll amend my earlier statement, I know one guy who could make a profit from his classic, it's a 65 Aston Martin DB6 Superleggera that he paid 3 grand for, accident damaged, (but not recorded) in the early 70s, He rebuilt it with a lot of love to a very high standard and it still looks absolutely stunning today. And is probably "worth" around £1.5 MILLION. Also, like me, it is probably his widow who will benefit from this windfall, I can't see HIM ever selling it!

Steve

_________________
2 door '73 Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine OWF 797M (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine EGP 247T (The Dolomega)
'91 Cavalier 2ltr 8v auto
'95 Cavalier 2ltr 16v auto
Spectrum Auto Services, Servicing, Repairs, MOT prep. Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 45 years and home of Maverick Triumph.PM for more info or quotes.


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