The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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 Post subject: It's broken......
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:56 pm
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Location: WARWICKSHIRE
Hi all
So here I am driving down the motorway at 75 ish when I start to get vibration through the steering wheel. Seems to get a little worse over 5 miles or so.
Off on to A roads and it get a little worse and 3 miles later I have no brakes....
I navigate through the village with smoke pooring out the wheel arch. At home I check. No brake fluid loss but oil dripping from bottom ball joint. Wheel is hor to touch. Still no brake pressure...
So what on earth has happened?
Bearing failure leading to hot wheel and cooked brake fluid? Funny it's a tandem system.
I reckon new bearing stub axle and maybe hub. Clean the disc. Shall I replace caliper or just seals?
Ideas welcome
John

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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:47 pm 
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Caliper stuck? Brake jammed on? That can generate a lot of heat and liquify the wheel bearing grease.

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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:46 pm 
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Seized calliper, the front flexi becoming a one way valve or problem with the master cylinder would be my first points of investigation. I had the latter on a single line system many years ago that just affected the offside front wheel!.

Was it just the one wheel that heated up?


Last edited by xvivalve on Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:59 pm 
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Yes just one hot wheel.
I can't understand why I had no brakes when I have a tandem system. Can't get my head round it. Kinda defeats the point of having a tandem system...

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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:30 pm 
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Did the braking return once it had cooled down? If not then I'd look at the cylinder, if it has returned then it will have been the fluid getting too hot somewhere.

Jack up the wheel that was hot and see if it is still binding. If it is, undo the flexi at the calliper end and see if it eases it. If it does, then it is probably the flexi at fault, but the loss of brakes in total is puzzling...the heat could boil the fluid locally, but that should not affect the split on the dual system...should it?

Callipers and master cylinder in Club stock in Stourbridge, if required.


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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:21 pm 
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I have found that if you lose the front circuit on a Dolomite dual system the rear circuit alone gives you a pedal so low as to be almost indistinguishable from no pedal at all. And very little braking effort from what you have got!

Under normal circumstances it's relatively rare to lose the front circuit, since calipers are much more reliable than wheel cylinders. However in cases of fade which I have experienced on track before I got my TJ brakes, although the heat buildup and consequent boiling of fluid is relatively local in the calipers, the entire system seems to be affected and after 3 hot laps at the short Prodrive circuit, I had no pedal to speak of, despite my dual circuit upgrade!

My guess is a seized and binding caliper with consequent fade.

If this turns out to be the case, PLEASE also change all the brake fuid as well as the offending hardware, once you've boiled it, it'll never be the same again!

Steve

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'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:48 am 
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Hi steve
This was my main thought process too, although never experienced it and thus not realised how rubbish the tandem system is.
Would you go for a recon caliper, a new seal kit or a new caliper from rimmers. Mine were new old stock fitted in 2003.
Do you know how quick the club sends out parts?
I already have a new bearing and stub axle to fit as was suffering from high pitched brake squeel when driving in a straight line and not using the brakes. Changing the stub axle on the drivers side 20 years ago resolved the same issue.
Do you think the hub may need replacing?
What's your thoughts on brake pads? The best are the asbestos ones but can't find any.
Cheers steve
John

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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:49 am 
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Hi steve
This was my main thought process too, although never experienced it and thus not realised how rubbish the tandem system is.
Would you go for a recon caliper, a new seal kit or a new caliper from rimmers. Mine were new old stock fitted in 2003.
Do you know how quick the club sends out parts?
I already have a new bearing and stub axle to fit as was suffering from high pitched brake squeel when driving in a straight line and not using the brakes. Changing the stub axle on the drivers side 20 years ago resolved the same issue.
Do you think the hub may need replacing?
What's your thoughts on brake pads? The best are the asbestos ones but can't find any.
Cheers steve
John

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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:29 am 
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Quote:
suffering from high pitched brake squeel when driving in a straight line and not using the brakes
Suggests a binding calliper to me! Can’t see why you might need to replace either hub or stub axle unless your bearing was worn to the point of complete failure, though the calliper bind could still be caused by a failed flexi...

If club parts are in stock, I dispatch either the same day as ordered, or the following day if the order is received after last post or UPS pick up. I have one pair of callipers currently in stock.

I am contemplating a trip down the M40 to Banbury sometime this weekend if that might be convenient dependent on what part of Warks you reside in?


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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:12 am 
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Pm sent and phone message left.
John

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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:34 am 
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Don't forget to check the flexi hoses as xvivalve suggests. Last year I had my callipers rebuilt and then not long after had one stick on like you but not as severe. To release the pad I opened up the bleed nipple and the crap that came out was unbelievable for new fluid and a front and rear brake rebuild. The not very old hose had started to perish inside and acted like a non return valve. New pads, braided hoses all round, and of course new fluid problem resolved


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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:28 pm 
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I wouldn't just replace the one caliper, be better to do the pair to be sure they remain balanced.

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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:32 pm 
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Location: WARWICKSHIRE
Thanks all for your replies.
Decided to fit a recon caliper, new pads and of course new fluid. Going to check the other side.
It's also getting a new stub axle and bearing as this was on the cards anyway.
Hose seemed OK when checked and j as mmed wheel did not release when hose disconnected.
Cheers all.
John

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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
The tandem system is OK within it's limitations, not bad for an early effort! and since the the most likely form of failure is a leaking rear wheel cylinder, it can often make the difference between most of the brakes still working (ie the fronts) and no brakes at all (single circuit)

A more modern style diagonal split would be safer, but would take more engineering than most folk are willing to put in!

Might be worth (if you have access to the gear) checking the disc for runout, an overheated disc can easily warp and you did mention a vibration! If you don't have access to a dial guage or whatever then you'll just have to suck it and see!

I too would recommend replacing the calipers as a pair, if one has seized, the other is likely not far behind!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: It's broken......
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:14 am 
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Posts: 2303
Sorry about the late reply, but is there a possibility that the MOT tester has tried the eliminate the 4-6thou end float in the wheel bearings by doing up the nut to lots 'n lots of ft.lbs of torque and the bearing has finally given up ? A photo of the bearings and one of the brake disc might tell a lot.


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