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 Post subject: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:48 pm 
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Location: TELFORD SHROPS
Hi its been a while since I've been on here anyway my 1850 has been off the road for 18 months so after someone rear ended me🙄and now all fixed by myself I now have an annoying electrical issue with the volt gauge and instrument cluster, what's happening is the volt gauge drops and at the same time the cluster(all segments) fade or go dim, at first it was intermittent but now seems all the time, i have pulled the dash out slightly to look at the earth's? Also because I use the choke each morning is it this or when i apply the handbrake,?? Some times i think maybe it's the ignition switch /barrel, sorry for my grammar, but it's starting to anoy me now.. 😠.. Oh by the way i have measured the battery output when the voltage is low on the gauge (11-12volts) which on the multimeter read 14.3v. Because i thought it was the alternater.. So it can't be that,, right??
Any thoughts, Martin.

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DOLLY 1850 1976 MIMOSA YELLOW
ASTRA 1.6 club estate
MERIVA (wife's car)


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:07 pm 
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I have a problem with my voltmeter and temp gauge Martin. Put anything electrical on when running, ie brake lights, temp gauge goes up volt meter goes down. Never been able to cure it, so gave up :lol:

Tony.

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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:33 pm 
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Don't want to give up Tony ☝️as I'm using the car for my brothers wedding in a few weeks so want to be reliable if you know what I mean, so anybody out there that could pin point the problem as i want to post pictures in the club magazine too😊

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DOLLY 1850 1976 MIMOSA YELLOW
ASTRA 1.6 club estate
MERIVA (wife's car)


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:44 pm 
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By the way Tony are you still having the meets at the Elephant pub this month if so might tag along, good drive out from Telford 😜

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DOLLY 1850 1976 MIMOSA YELLOW
ASTRA 1.6 club estate
MERIVA (wife's car)


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
Got all the makings of an earth fault, probably behind the dash. Yours too Tony!

Voltmeter and temp guage are adjacent in the dash and share the same earth wire IIRC.

I'm not that far from you, in Highley just the other side of Bridgnorth. If you can't track it down yourself, pop it over to me and i'll take a look! It's a lot easier than trying to do electrical diagnosis via messages!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:16 am 
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TDC Cheshire Area Organiser

Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:28 pm
Posts: 1405
Location: NANTWICH.
Quote:
By the way Tony are you still having the meets at the Elephant pub this month if so might tag along, good drive out from Telford 😜
Hi Martin, yes we are still there and we are there from 7-15pm with people coming and going at various times. You would be made more than welcome in your Dolly or just your modern :D :D
Cheers,
Tony.

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NOW A CLUB MEMBER 2017057 :bluewave:


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:24 am 
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TDC Cheshire Area Organiser

Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:28 pm
Posts: 1405
Location: NANTWICH.
Quote:
Got all the makings of an earth fault, probably behind the dash. Yours too Tony!

Voltmeter and temp guage are adjacent in the dash and share the same earth wire IIRC.

I'm not that far from you, in Highley just the other side of Bridgnorth. If you can't track it down yourself, pop it over to me and i'll take a look! It's a lot easier than trying to do electrical diagnosis via messages!

Steve
Hi Steve, i have had this problem since i bought the car and people suggested an earth fault. So out came the dash and i ran seperate earths to everything :shock: Still the same :( So far, i have replaced the gauges voltage stabiliser inc transistor type and a new alternator and it's still the same. cleaned every earth i can find :? :? It does'nt cause any problems but being an auto it can be worrying if sat in traffic watching the temp gauge go up :lol:
Cheers.
Tony.

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NOW A CLUB MEMBER 2017057 :bluewave:


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:10 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
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Location: Highley, Shropshire
Won't be the stabiliser Tony, a problem there would a) not affect the voltmeter as it's not connected to it and b) WOULD affect the fuel guage. And a genuine low output from the alternator would affect everything.

With the dash being wood, you have to treat it like a fibreglass car and earth absolutely everything thoroughly and individually!

Since our phone conversation Martin, i've had a better idea of what is going on and have another suspect for your problem, there is an unfused ignition live that supplies both the voltmeter and the warning light cluster, not all bulbs, but the more commonly illuminated ones, ign light, oil light, choke and handbrake lights. So something to check on your way over tomorrow, is the indicator repeater or main beam light also affected?

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7047
Location: Highley, Shropshire
A PS and update to this, Martin brought the car over to mine, clearly displaying the symptoms described, but the indicator repeater and main beam warning lights functioning correctly.

Which took me, as I suspected, to the (white) unfused ignition live through the 9 pin plug to the dash warning light cluster and voltmeter. So I removed the dash assembly completely and examined it. Finding no obvious fault, I put the voltmeter into the white wire in the socket on the loom and got a fairly healthy 11.83v (ign on, engine not running)

So far, so good, I next made a jumper lead to go between the white wire in the socket in the car and it's corresponding pole in the dash plug, this so I could check the dash fittings easily without having the dash mostly in place to make the plugs reach.

Earthing the multimeter back to the body, I was getting 11.79v at the voltmeter +ve and a similar reading at the input plug to the WLC, which surprised me somewhat as I was expecting a drop! Slightly confused and because I could, I next removed and dismantled the WLC to check the pathways within but found no fault besides a blackened bulb in the choke warning light which I replaced.

So I reassembled and replaced the dash, firmly closing the 3 plugs together but paying special attention to the 9 pin that carries that white lead. And normal operation was immediately restored and has stayed that way.

My conclusion is that there was a bad connection in the 9 pin plug and disturbing it was all the fixing it needed! Either that or the duff bulb in the choke light was somehow responsible (is this possible, you "real" sparkies out there?)

There is, however, a sting in the tail here! Just before Martin was leaving, he was idly flicking switches to test other circuits. And when he switched the sidelights on, the rev counter dropped to zero! Switched them off and the rev counter resumed! did this several times with the same result. At the time I was very puzzled as I couldn't see any obvious connection between the 2 functions, I now think the obvious one is the panel light in the rev counter which shares it's earth with the instrument. I reckon I somehow knocked the earth wire off the rev counter when replacing the dash! And the rev counter was earthing through the sidelight wiring, which would work until the sidelights were switched on!

So if you're reading this Martin, pop the dash out again, (you know how now) and check the earth connection to the rev counter, it's 2 black wires on a spade connector going to a tag on the rev counter case!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:20 pm 
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Location: TELFORD SHROPS
Yes Steve, I did notice that when I got home i carried on playing with all the instruments, as you do, and i had noticed that the rev counter illumination light was not working so this could explain the reason why the rev counter stopped when i turned the lights on?? So will tackle the dash out again over the weekend and will keep you posted
Many thanks again and the cuppa 😉

_________________
DOLLY 1850 1976 MIMOSA YELLOW
ASTRA 1.6 club estate
MERIVA (wife's car)


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:24 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:00 pm
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Steve,

Where do you get the replacement lamps for the WLC?
I've tried several, none are a perfect fit.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:05 pm 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7047
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Steve,

Where do you get the replacement lamps for the WLC?
I've tried several, none are a perfect fit.
Simple! I robbed a spare WLC! I have a few so why not!

But if they are that scarce, i'll make an effort to find some correct new ones!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:00 pm
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The spare lamps are easy to buy - but don't fit too well. As usual with new stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:56 am 
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TDC Shropshire Area Organiser

Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:12 pm
Posts: 7047
Location: Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
The spare lamps are easy to buy - but don't fit too well. As usual with new stuff.
The originals don't fit that well either! Get them tight enough to work reliably and they twist the earthing bracket they're screwed through and look all skew-wiff! It's not something i've thought about much, every one i've taken apart over the years looks the same!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical problems
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:26 am 
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These are the WLC bulbs aren't they? (280/E5)

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/p ... p-mes-bulb

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Some people are like Slinky's, they serve no real purpose in life but bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.


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