The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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PostPosted:Mon May 11, 2020 7:06 pm 
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A couple of years ago I realised that I could fit relays into the headlight circuits without having to cut any of the original wiring by making use of the three way connectors that feed the headlight fittings. This can be done by basically disconnection connector nearest the battery and then using the disconnected socket section to control the relays and then taking wires from the relays to feed the three pin plug section of the connector that was disconnected. It is then just a matter of disconnecting the headlight connector on the other side of the car and connecting three wires from the disconnected connector plug back to the relays. The other half of the disconnected connector, the socket, is now effectively redundant and can just be blanked off and tucked out of the way. Having more time, due to being in lock down, I have made use of the time available to make a new tidier installation. I will in due course produce an article for inclusion in an edition of Dolly Mixtures in which I will detail the bits required and how to do it. I have attached a photograph showing how the relays can be sited just above the battery using the two existing spare tapped holes that are there and a photo of my new kit ready to be fitted.
Image

Image


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PostPosted:Tue May 19, 2020 4:01 pm 
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I've just fitted a halogen conversion kit to my 1500fwd. The kit came from Rimmer Bros. The instructions were fairly clear, apart from no mention of wiring the inner headlamps. Sussed that out. Like yours, I've put the relays and fuses on the inner wing above the battery.


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PostPosted:Tue May 19, 2020 4:37 pm 
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Snap.


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(MGB GTV8, and Dolomite 1850HL. New: a 1971 MGB roadster in need of welding)
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PostPosted:Tue May 19, 2020 4:43 pm 
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I have now produced an article which gives the details of what bits I purchased to produce the kit and how I wired the items. What I like about my method is that I did not have to cut any existing wires as it makes use of the existing plugs and socket connectors. I will be sending it off to Steve Waldenberg for him to consider for inclusion in the August/ September edition of Dolly Mixture.

To finish the installation off I have even produced a cover to go over the relays. This is shown in the following photograph
Image


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PostPosted:Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:36 am 
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Hi Richard, I have been warned about not fitting relays with my halogen conversion on my 1850hl Dolly. Would you be able to share the article with me? Many thanks Erik


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PostPosted:Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:32 am 
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The detail of how I installed the relays is covered in an article in issue 198 August-September 2020. What I like about my fitment is that you do not cut any wires. You do need to purchase some three way connectors as well as the relay but by doing this you are able to disconnect the existing connectors and just plug in the modification.

All my cars are 1977 or later 1500HLs and I believe that all dolomites in this age group are basically the same but just with the battery on the other side of the engine compartment. Earlier cars may have a different type of three way connector.


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PostPosted:Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:24 am 
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I managed to find a Fuse and relay holder that fits well in the car.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/WGCD-12-Slot-M ... 231049[url][/url]


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PostPosted:Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:37 pm 
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I like the idea of mounting the relays under the dash.

Image

It does mean cutting the wiring at some point, preferably loom side the connector to the wires that run along the steering column to and from the light switches (at the red Xs in the attached diagram). But that's just a cut and connectorize on each of main and dip, so that the outputs from the switches control the relays, and the outputs of the relays feed the lights. You then need an unswitched supply to the relays.

I've got separate feeds into the relays from the unfused battery supply side of the fuse box with separate, additional fuses for main and dip. And that is visible. But the feed to the lighting switches could also be tapped (perhaps not with Scotchlocks) to supply the relays - e.g. cut and joined with a connector that has three wires on the loom side, to battery and both relay supplies, and one on the other for the supply wire running up to the switches. And that could be done at the same point as the feeds to the lights are cut, i.e. loom side of that connector to the wires up the column (at the wire the red arrow points at).

Image

Then, all the relays do is (almost) invisibly take (most of) the load off the light switches.

The bit I least like about doing it all under the dash is, as described, there're no fuses to the lights, well not to VA15000. I think that means using relays with integral fuses and mounting so those are accessible. And that means keeping two types of spare fuses in the car. But I suppose that's not that bad.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:17 pm 
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The reason I went for putting them in the engine compartment alongside the battery is that:
1. It reduces the cable lengths and hence the voltage drop to the headlights.
2. There are 3 pin connectors that connect to the headlights close by and these can be used to control the relays.


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PostPosted:Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:38 pm 
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Quote:
The reason I went for putting them in the engine compartment alongside the battery is that:
1. It reduces the cable lengths and hence the voltage drop to the headlights.
2. There are 3 pin connectors that connect to the headlights close by and these can be used to control the relays.
How big a voltage drop did you measure to the lights on the standard setup, and how much was in the switches, which the relays get around wherever they are?

I, personally, am not that bothered about keeping the car looking exactly original, as such. But I do realize there are those that do. And given the way the switches are getting old and can be prone to burn - and aren't all covered by fuses -, the possible need to fit relays to bypass the light switches should be a concern even to them. I've certainly got relays and a 3 pin flasher unit, cos some of the switches are too resistive already. And I had the turn switch on the even older (practically paleolithic) Herald burnout in a big cloud of smoke a while back, which was a bit disconcerting at the time.

Adding relays in the lights probably can't ever be entirely invisible - you need them to be accessible -, but it can be pretty well hidden for not too much effort.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:56 pm 
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It strikes me that there are only 2 sorts of owners, not just in the Dolomite world, but throughout the classic car fraternity.

Let's call them, for the sake of argument, "Drivers" and "Polishers"

Polishers first, a polisher is aware he is the custodian of a piece of history and treats it accordingly, it doesn't go out in the rain, seldom in the dark, sometimes not at all in the most extreme cases (or only on a trailer) A polisher derives his pleasure from meticulous cleaning and lavishing hours and gallons of wax on his pride and joy. (and why shouldn't he? this IS supposed to be a free country) The part of our hobby which favours concours style restoration and the pursuit of absolute originality is almost entirely composed of "polisher" type people. Such folk will frown on ANYTHING that wasn't OE (like relays for headlights) this doesn't really matter, as a car that doesn't go out in the dark, doesn't need them!

Then there are Drivers. A driver is not so concerned about originality, the preservation of full or even better-than-original FUNCTION is his aim. His "happy place" is behind the wheel on a twisty, empty B road. This doesn't mean he drives a rusting shed of a car, far from it, many "drivers" cars have justifiably brought home silverware for their no less proud owners. But a "Driver" will lavish time, money and skill on bringing a rotten wreck back to a showroom shine, above AND below, purely for the pleasure of DRIVING it. So a "Drivers" car, once lovingly restored, will only have a season or two at most in the silver hunt and after that, it wll have a few stone chips, the odd scratch, dead bugs on the number plate, dust in the airvents, not such a deep shine ( well it was such a nice day I thought I'd go for a drive instead of waxing it.....) It's still kept clean and relatively shiny (futureproofing) It'll still sound lovely and performs faultlessly, it's just not got the "new" on it any more. The "Driver" accepts that entropy will win, that it's not really good enough for pot hunting anymore and happily goes back to his first love (driving) And a "driver" is the sort of person who wants to futureproof, as much as possible, the source of his enjoyment, if that means a few subtle performance and safety upgrades (like relays or TJ brakes) that's fine with him. If anyone sees his bank of relays above the battery, so what?

Steve

PS, It was not my intent here to offend or insult EITHER sort of owner, BOTH have an equal share in our hobby!

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted:Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:03 am 
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Quote:
It strikes me that there are only 2 sorts of owners, not just in the Dolomite world, but throughout the classic car fraternity.

Let's call them, for the sake of argument, "Drivers" and "Polishers"

Polishers first, a polisher is aware he is the custodian of a piece of history and treats it accordingly, it doesn't go out in the rain, seldom in the dark, sometimes not at all in the most extreme cases (or only on a trailer) A polisher derives his pleasure from meticulous cleaning and lavishing hours and gallons of wax on his pride and joy. (and why shouldn't he? this IS supposed to be a free country) The part of our hobby which favours concours style restoration and the pursuit of absolute originality is almost entirely composed of "polisher" type people. Such folk will frown on ANYTHING that wasn't OE (like relays for headlights) this doesn't really matter, as a car that doesn't go out in the dark, doesn't need them!

Then there are Drivers. A driver is not so concerned about originality, the preservation of full or even better-than-original FUNCTION is his aim. His "happy place" is behind the wheel on a twisty, empty B road. This doesn't mean he drives a rusting shed of a car, far from it, many "drivers" cars have justifiably brought home silverware for their no less proud owners. But a "Driver" will lavish time, money and skill on bringing a rotten wreck back to a showroom shine, above AND below, purely for the pleasure of DRIVING it. So a "Drivers" car, once lovingly restored, will only have a season or two at most in the silver hunt and after that, it wll have a few stone chips, the odd scratch, dead bugs on the number plate, dust in the airvents, not such a deep shine ( well it was such a nice day I thought I'd go for a drive instead of waxing it.....) It's still kept clean and relatively shiny (futureproofing) It'll still sound lovely and performs faultlessly, it's just not got the "new" on it any more. The "Driver" accepts that entropy will win, that it's not really good enough for pot hunting anymore and happily goes back to his first love (driving) And a "driver" is the sort of person who wants to futureproof, as much as possible, the source of his enjoyment, if that means a few subtle performance and safety upgrades (like relays or TJ brakes) that's fine with him. If anyone sees his bank of relays above the battery, so what?

Steve

PS, It was not my intent here to offend or insult EITHER sort of owner, BOTH have an equal share in our hobby!
And for both a nearly invisible relay conversion set is available.

Jeroen

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PostPosted:Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:57 am 
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Steve, I think your definitions of "polishers" and "drivers" may represent more or less, the ends of a spectrum. I, for instance, use my Sprint as a daily drive for the shopping and school runs and the odd trip up and down the country. And it lives outside on the drive in the best of W. Lancs. weather. But any mods I make are made with at least half an eye to their visibility or reversibility. Like the back parcel shelf is heavily modded, but there's a spare in the garage. The front seats have headrests, but ditto on spares. Electric fan, but original fan and boss on a shelf. Etc., etc. And at the last re-spray, I changed it back to Mimosa despite Inca being FAB (and Leyland White being NAF).

That's because I intend to keep the car on the road longer than I expect to be driving: my dad stopped at 70, but the wife, who works in care, has clients still driving in their 90s - mind you, one recently drove through the back wall of her garage and had to be rescued by the fire brigade. Not sure if the car will pass to one of the Horde of the Things or be sold. If the latter, I think it wants to be more or less original; ideally, rather more than less.

And Jeroen, I can see why some would need a kit to fit relays in the lights without them being obvious. But it is fairly easy to do with a few bits off ebay. The hard bit is containerizing the cuts - though afterthought is it could all be done with a pair of the right pin number 4mm RIST connectors, the relays, inline fuses, and some wires, inserted betwixt the right the connector at the bottom of the column, which ever the brown, blue and white, and blue and red wires go through.

And I still wonder about the losses in the wires themselves, rather than in the switches up the column and connectors for them.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:06 am 
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The relays are fitted under the battery on the chassis leg where the original harness runs. From that location on the harness is completely new to the lamps and horn but without the dividing knots having every lamp its complete own lead. The main feed take off is at the battery lead connector where the alternator wires are connected. All is fresh with new wires but without the wiring mess and relays visible on the inner wing.

Jeroen

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PostPosted:Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:34 pm 
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I’ve got one of Jeroen’s Front looms on my sprint.
Mine has relays for lights (inner and outer beams) horn and the kenlowe fan.
Discreet, tidy, functional, well thought out, and easy to fit, even for a ham fisted amateur like me.
As Jeroen mentions, the relays are fitted under the battery on the chassis leg, neat, out of the way and means there’s no extra wires lying around the engine bay.
Brings reliability to 45 yr old electrics!! (I was having problems before I put it in!!)

Highly recommended

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