The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

I fear I'm heading into troubled waters with my overdrive conversion. After removing the engine and gearbox I went exploring. On British Playland products, this isn't perhaps the wisest course of action and I promptly discovered some none standard drainage holes in the rear wheel arches. As far as rot goes it’s pretty mild and doesn't really need a lot of new metal to be cut in. Hopefully five minutes or so with the welder should sort some of the holes out and that falls within my level of incompetence.

This additional work also coincides with happenings at the other end. I separated the box from the engine at the weekend and found that oil was present inside the bell housing. There was a fair amount of it and by the look of it has been happily collecting there for years. Shortly after purchasing the car last September I discovered that there was an oil leak with the car leaving a small patch on the ground and appeared to be coming from the rear of the engine. However, the amount was not great and didn't require constant topping up. I thought I'd traced the leak to the rocker cover as this was clearly leaking and following replacement of the gasket it certainly improved things but there were still regular deposits of oil to mark where the car had been but again not vast quantities. While I am not entirely convinced that the leak from the rocker cover is fully cured, the presence of oil inside the bell housing suggests additional sources.

As far as I could tell it does not appear to have come from the front seal of the gearbox and so my attention has unsurprisingly turned towards the crank shaft oil seal. I've not actually attempted to change one of these before so I am a little wary. I am also starting to become concerned that if I'm not careful I could quickly find myself taking the whole car to pieces before I know it. The main focus is supposed to be installing the overdrive gearbox. I have all the parts to do this except for the clutch and thrust bearing. However, with the engine out it made sense to take the opportunity to do a few other jobs. This includes repairing the bulkhead spilt by the throttle pedal and to tart up the engine bay. Also, on my main to do list was to clean up the surface rust on the underside of the floors and repaint, hence why I was exploring inside the boot to locate any problems as I didn't see much point in putting lots of effort into the floors while the rear wheel arches were quietly disintegrating. After splitting the engine from the box I’ve been degreasing the latter in preparation to giving it a coat of paint as part of the engine bay tidy up.

Along with the oil in the bell housing, I have found that the N/S and front of the block is well caked in oil. A horrible thought struck me that removal of this congealed oil could actually be what is preventing further leaks from aged gaskets and once removed I may find myself with a cullender instead of an engine. Returning to the crank shaft oil seal I partly feel like pretending I didn't see it, after all the engine was running very well before I touched it and taking it apart further may bring about something worse. While in all seriousness I would like to avoid adding more additional work if possible if something is worth doing now, I'd rather get it done in one hit. I might be getting a car lift shortly but it doesn't mean I want to be taking the engine out every five minutes. It has been suggested to try fitting a double lip type oil seal to the crank shaft but it sounded like these are hard to come by, is this the case and where is the best place to seek? I’d also be open to any other suggestions and advice before delving further into the deeps of taking my car to pieces.

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1953 Riley RMF, 1968 Morris Minor Pickup, 1969 MG CGT, 1971 Morris Minor Traveller, 1978 MG BGT, 1981 Triumph Dolomite 1850HL, 1993 Landrover Discovery MPi, 2003 Rover 75 Connoisseur SE

Sorry had to split it into paragraphs, too much text to follow.

As for the substance of your post, if dig you will find stuff. I found a ton of rot when I did my engine swap.

Now personally once I have found it, I have to fix it. Though that is why my car is currently half built on the drive. So it is really up to you how much you want to dig but I guarantee the more you do, the more problems you will find.

I've edited the text on the original post to make it easier to follow.

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Toledo Man

West Yorkshire Area Organiser & forum moderator
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Hi Jeremy, Good choice of model and a nice colour as well. I've done an 1850 to overdrive conversion some years ago and it went well, but there are things to look-out for.

First on the additional work you mention; if the oil in the bell-housing is black engine oil then yes it will be coming from the rear crank seal. That oil leak won't get any better so while the engine is out I'd replace it, particularly as it would be worth doing a 3-part clutch replacement as well. Fill the inner aperture of the oil seal with grease before fitting to prevent burning of the seal when first starting. The seal is Part no 143148 and you'll need the gasket as well 143845.

There are 2 types of clutch driven plate; early and late depending on whether the new gearbox has coarse or fine splines. Likewise 2 different clutch alignment tools.

You will also need the 1850 O/D gearbox cross-member and gearbox mount. The 4-speed box one is very different.

The important bit on the 1850 is the clutch fork. Have a careful look at the pivot point as they crack at this point and break. Only 2nd hand available right now, but they are compatible with Herald / GT6, I seem to remember.
Check the new O/D gearbox comes complete with the gear-lever and the O/D solenoid (£80 now) . Change the oil and clean the magnetic filter at the back. Try and get the wiring loom as well, but its not difficult to make up. Check the electrics work for the O/D and the reverse light switch on the bench before installation. It's much easier.
If you have an early car there is a slightly different exhaust centre box as well.

Replace the spigot bearing in the back of the crankshaft as well.

Don't forget the rear exhaust bracket to exhaust pipe. The bolts go into oil-ways in the gearbox so they need a smear of sealant on the threads.

As to the rest, Yes I would do the crank oil seal while its out. The crank pulley bolt is 1 1/2 A.F. but is much easier to do with the engine out. The seal is just behind the pulley in the timing chain case. Again grease the aperture to prevent burning on start up.

It would be worth cleaning off all the old oil on the engine externals with something like Gunk. It makes it much easier to see leaks but I suspect this will be the camshaft cover gasket if its on the n/s.
I don't know about a double lip seal. Maybe one of the engine experts on here can help ?
Good Luck with it,
Tony.

I thought there was something different that I couldnt remember doing. At least I know I'm not completely barmy! LOL

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1953 Riley RMF, 1968 Morris Minor Pickup, 1969 MG CGT, 1971 Morris Minor Traveller, 1978 MG BGT, 1981 Triumph Dolomite 1850HL, 1993 Landrover Discovery MPi, 2003 Rover 75 Connoisseur SE

Many thanks certainly food for thought. Something to ponder over while I clean all that caked oil off the block. The sub frame is pretty well covered too, the whole engine bay will need to be clean before I can think about giving it a coat of paint and theres also the small matter of welding up the split on the bulkhead. I'm hoping to persuade my friend to weld it up with his Tig welder. It will make a neater job and I may get away with little or no grinding back. Not that I'm trying to put off doing the crank oil seals, but I think I'll need to build up to it.

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1953 Riley RMF, 1968 Morris Minor Pickup, 1969 MG CGT, 1971 Morris Minor Traveller, 1978 MG BGT, 1981 Triumph Dolomite 1850HL, 1993 Landrover Discovery MPi, 2003 Rover 75 Connoisseur SE

Took a pic of the old box last night

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1953 Riley RMF, 1968 Morris Minor Pickup, 1969 MG CGT, 1971 Morris Minor Traveller, 1978 MG BGT, 1981 Triumph Dolomite 1850HL, 1993 Landrover Discovery MPi, 2003 Rover 75 Connoisseur SE

With regard to the bulkhead crack around the throttle pedal area, the club sell a stiffener that is a bolt in fit for this area. It is a copy of the stiffener used on auto models by the factory to compensate for the increased load generated by the kickdown cable which precipitated earlier bulkhead cracking on auto models. I fit them to nearly every car I restore as a preventative measure. worth doing for the few quid they cost!

Steve

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Quick update, I trial fitted the strengthing plate and all looks good. My friend thinks he can get the tig welder in to weld up the split in the bulkhead and I've also pulled the wiring loom through the hole to keep it out of the way during welding. I have cleaned the engine bay today and removed many years of dirt and grime and its now looking quite good. Several minor rust patches along the seams and also the area where the inner wheel arch meets the bulkhead have appeared. Will be giving them a good clean up and treated with liberal amounts of rust treatment before painting.

However I'm not quite sure what paint to get. The previous owner had the car respayed. This was carried out in two pack sandglow over the whole car except for the engine bay. This two pack finish is suprisingly different to the cellulous sandglow of the orignal finish. My impression of sandglow from my childhood in the 80s is dull, drab, matt and generally orrible! In fact when I first saw the photos of this car on Brightwells website I was convinced it was Inca! Anyway in many places the paintwork in the engine bay is still in suprisingly good order and as you can see in the photo theres nothing wrong with the paint on the bulkhead. As most of it is covered up anyway its only the small patches where it is visable that would be cause for concern but it's all pretty good. What does concern me is getting a paint that will match the original finish rather than the modern two pack of the exterior, otherwise I could be looking at a full repaint of the engine bay when I had only intended to tidy it up.

The Engine has also bee degreased and is almost ready for painting. However before I do this I will try and address the oil leak. The engine spent the whole of last week nose down and I found no trace of a leak at that end so I intend to leave that well alone. Yesterday I left the engine over night the other way and this morning a good dolop of oil greeted me so that oil seal is definately getting replaced. I removed the clutch today, that is looking pretty good with plenty of meat left on it so I think I may risk it and let it go again. I had a crack at the flywheel but time was against me so this was left for today.

The car is temporarily setting on a set of wheels off a Morris Marina while the Sprint alloys are sent away to be tidded up. I must admit I quite like the steel wheels and could almost be persuaded to return it to standard if it wasn't for those chunky hubcaps!

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1953 Riley RMF, 1968 Morris Minor Pickup, 1969 MG CGT, 1971 Morris Minor Traveller, 1978 MG BGT, 1981 Triumph Dolomite 1850HL, 1993 Landrover Discovery MPi, 2003 Rover 75 Connoisseur SE