The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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PostPosted:Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:27 pm 
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In some ways what would be nice would be to gut the original case and fit a modern mechanism. I have a spare broken clock somewhere, might give it ago
Despite what I initially thought, these £3 65mm Chinese quartz clocks will fit in the original case and give access to the battery without taking the glove box to bits.

I took all the guts out of a Kienzle one that has one of the three clip springs broken and, with a little stilling of the heart, cut the front off the green plastic part. I filed the flange off the clock insert that the clock's original bezel clips to, pealed the face off and Araldited the front of the green plastic to the front of the insert. Then I put the face, the clip for the front glass, the black and silver blanking disk, and the glass from the Kienzle clock into the green part, and Araldited it all together. I also glued up the adjustment mechanism so it can't be pushed and catch the hands.

Then I took it all apart and put on the two hands I'd made from plasticard and the second hand I'd painted mimosa, and glued it together again. The results, after that clock-up are not as good as they were the first time, but it'll do.

So, with the empty Keinzle clock body in the dash, Frankenstein's clock insert fits into it from the front, then the original bezel (my least good one), with the crimp straightened as best I can manage, goes in after the insert, with a 4mm x 54mm ID O ring replacing the dried out seal in the back of the bezel:
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The slightly fat O ring keeps the bezel just a bit off the glass so I can get fingernails in to pull the bezel out, then use the knob on the glass to pull the insert out.

The problem that remains is that, even with the bulb that was too bright for the original Kienzle clock, the illuminations are a bit lacking:

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I may find a still brighter LED, or fit a couple of small ones up close. But then, it is just the clock.

Graham

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The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:36 pm 
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A bit of work on the sides of the insert with a file, and the lighting situation is a fair bit better:

Image

Graham

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The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:15 pm 
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On the issue of the chrome rings splitting when you take the clock to bits, i.e. to fix the link to the solenoid or adjust the time keeping or gut and replace the mech: I found this listing for a 65mm chrome ring that looks like it will fit.

It's not quite the same, but if the ring being bust is the only thing wrong with the clock after repairs, it may be an option - if a bit expensive by the time you've added what I expect to be 8 Euros for P&P.

If anybody has a dead one of these clocks, with or without the chrome ring, I could use another for my experiments.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:18 pm 
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The not quite so cheap quartz clock from Minsk just turned up, and fits very well - using the mounting collar that came with it and a jubilee clip to hold that against the back of the dash.

Image

It came with a bulb holder for a BA9 bayonet bulb, but the standard one wedges in the hole well enough to try. The illumination isn't quite right. But I'm sure I can adjust it.

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So I shall be using it until I get the fake Kienzle one to light up correctly - waiting for a perspex tube to try and collect more light and pipe it through. Or failing that, use the tube to mount some 2mm green leds round the edge.

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:42 pm 
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Graham, you have a PM!


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Steve

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'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted:Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:13 am 
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If your clock doesn’t say Quartz or Keinzle, is there any other way of telling if it’s quartz by looking at it ? Are the backs different ?


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PostPosted:Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:55 am 
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If your clock doesn’t say Quartz or Keinzle, is there any other way of telling if it’s quartz by looking at it ? Are the backs different ?
The electrically wound, clockwork ones have a grey plastic ring that slides over three spring clips on the case to locate. Also the second hand sweeps fairly smoothly - I would say it's moving in small jumps no less often than about 4Hz, possibly 8.

I haven't got one of the Kienzle quartz ones yet, but from what I've read and been told, the quartz ones have a U shaped bracket with a single central nut, very like the way the 2" meters in the main dash mount. Also, the second hand moves in 1 second jerks.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:30 pm 
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I've got both in my hands and I can't see any differences between them. If your clocks are working then, what I call the hybrid clock, makes a clunk about every 2½ minutes as the points get reset.

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PostPosted:Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:07 pm 
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This one says quartz and the mounting is clearly different, so maybe there are multiple types: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Triumph-Dash ... 1438.l2649

The clunk is the solenoid re-winding the clockwork, and 2.5 min gaps implies quite a good one - some are less than a minute. It is annoying and can keep you awake while driving, if too frequent.

For a quick check it's probably whether it sweeps or jumps each second - assuming I've got that right from what Steve (Carledo) told me, who also commented on the different mounting.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:28 pm 
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If your clock doesn’t say Quartz or Keinzle, is there any other way of telling if it’s quartz by looking at it ? Are the backs different ?
AFAIK all the early style electro-mechanical clocks are marked "Keinzle" and "W Germany" and all the ones i've seen have had the clip in fitment.

The later Quartz clocks can have "Quartz" and "W Germany" or either or none. Most have the U clamp fitment but some early models may be clip in. There are 3 variations in my pic above. But it's a pretty safe bet, that if it has neither Keinzle nor Quartz on it and has a U clamp fitting, it's likely to be a quartz type. In any case the Keinzle clock was only used in Dolomites up to around 1975/6 when it was superceded by the Quartz type.

Not to mention the colour of the second hand, which can vary from Honeysuckle to Vermillion, though I suspect this is more due to sunlight degradation than production differences.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted:Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:55 pm 
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My only clock says Quartz😃😃. Does that mean it will keep good time ?!
Image


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PostPosted:Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:45 pm 
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Not to mention the colour of the second hand, which can vary from Honeysuckle to Vermillion, though I suspect this is more due to sunlight degradation than production differences.

Steve
Not sure how it could be ageing from sunlight, as the sales literature for the early cars shows a pale yellow one and the other identifiable colours - red and white - in the dash instruments look right. I'd expect it to fade over time from susceptibility to sunlight, i.e. bleach, not get darker. I know Mike Barker went for a pale yellow one, presumably because he saw that as right for the 73 cars.

So I suspect it's production differences more than ageing. But I wouldn't know whether its more or less random for any given time of production or if there's a progression of sorts.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:59 pm 
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My only clock says Quartz😃😃. Does that mean it will keep good time ?!
Image
It will keep good time twice a day :D :D


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PostPosted:Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:29 pm 
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My only clock says Quartz😃😃. Does that mean it will keep good time ?!
Image
The Quartz type seem, in general, to keep time better than the Keinzle EM type, though that's not saying much! The only one i've actually tested long term is the Quartz clock in the Dolomega. I set it correct against my phone back in April 2020 and have checked it periodically since. Last time I looked, about a week ago, it had gained slightly less than 4 mins (allowing for the change from daylight saving last October) Which is close enough for it not to annoy me!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted:Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:10 am 
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It turns out there's at least two different clock types with Kienzle and W-Germany on the dial. I got two of the three clocks Steve pictured cos you can't have too many bits on the kitchen table, can you? Well, it seem you can, but that's another tale.

The first looks the same as the electro-mechanical ones described before. But inside its a transistorized one, but still with an electronic escapement. I took it apart because it only runs at all when its the right way up, and then loses an hour in four. Unfortunately the main bearing has gone (don't think these can be reground and take over sized shells). So, that's getting the mk2 Chinese quartz insert and looking good so far.

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For comparison, this is one of the electrically wound clockwork ones:

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The last picture shows the where the link was broken on this one and I jumped it with a blob of solder, dead center of the picture.
This one hasn't much to recommend it other than it runs and keeps good time - the bezel is in bad shape, the hands had already been badly repaired, and it's missing a mounting spring.
The glass has the two black and silver reflectors glued to it because I was on the way to using it in building the Mk2 insert. But the transistor one being, I think, irreparable changed the plans.

I think what differentiates the transistor clock from the clockwork one is the power connection being oriented differently and the chrome bezel being straight sided, not with a bead round the back edge.

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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