The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The Number One Club for owners of Triumph's range of small saloons from the 1960s and 1970s.
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PostPosted:Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:41 pm 
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Oh, it might be worth noting that the electronic clock, like the eclectically wound clockwork one, keeps running for a while after power is removed. I think that's because there's energy stored in the spring in the electro-mechanical escapement. But its only for a few seconds rather than 10s or hundreds of seconds with the eclectically wound clockwork ones. And there's no clunk as the solenoid rewinds the clockwork.

Whereas, the quartz clocks stop within two seconds of power being removed.

Graham

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The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:56 pm 
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I finished the mk2 version of Frankenstein's clock insert. This one uses the green plastic bit, dial, and reflector of the electronic clock, which look to be the same as those in the quartz clocks - from what I can see without taking one apart. That seems to me to give a much neater solution. Though its a bit more work shortening the green plastic bit.

Image

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The illumination is dispersed by two 3mm thick perspex mirrors held 10mm apart by a perspex disc, and a pair of 10mm long tubes tight around that and tight in the body of the clock. The bulb sits in an 8mm hole drilled through the back mirror and 10mm disc. The tubes are only 1.5mm wall thickness, and it might be better if they were about 3mm. But considering the issues in getting them to fit in the body, if I decide I want it brighter, I'll look for a brighter bulb. The one in there is about 0.2W, and I can get at least a 1W led in a GLB281 form, though I may have to drill the hole out a bit. Another solution would be to move the bulb holder to the middle, but it would have been a heavier soldering job than I can manage in the house. Filing perspex I can just abut get away with, if I sweep up after.

Graham

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Sat Mar 27, 2021 3:56 pm 
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It turns out that there's a possible problem with these intermediate clocks, i.e. ones that sweep the second hand smoothly (about 4Hz steps) not step every second like the quartz ones, but don't go clunk every minute or two like the electrically rewound ones. These clocks have an escapement inside that uses a couple of static coils and a couple of magnets on an amature, the coils used as a sensor and a magnetic driver for a two transistor pulse generator, working against a hair spring as an escapement.

The problem is that the glue used to hold the magnets on the amature doesn't last. While they still stick to the amature magnetically, given a good knock the magnets can move in and out relative to the centre. That changes the time constant of the amature and spring, like changing the length of the pendulum in a grandfather clock, and they run faster or slower, possibly by more than the adjustment on the hair spring can compensate for.

Image

Hopefully, the picture above shows the top magnet can move. On the left, it's about where it should be. On the right I've moved it in as far as it will go at one end. This would make it run seriously fast, and moving it in by even less than a millimeter seems to be enough to make it run so fast the adjuster can't correct.

I've got two here where one of the magnets had come unglued and could slide on the amature and change the time constant. So this is not an isolated failure. The one pictured above is the one where the bearing has gone and the clock can't be fixed. The other works, but was gaining tens of seconds a day at the slowest it could be set.

So I've re-glued the magnet to the armature on the working one. The worry is that the glue, in effect, moves the mass out a bit, and slows the clock too much. So I used the smallest drop of superglue gel I could get in there. And I must have got it about right, because it now runs slow at one end of the adjustment and fast at the other.

Fixing this problem with the magnet does mean taking the bezel off. And that's a problem in its own right because the bezels are generally a bit brittle and will tend to split. So much so that the splits are visible when it's all back together and in place. But with care, and the right tooling, it is possible to get the bezel off and back on, and fix one of these that won't adjust to run right, or needs re-setting if you hit a big enough bump, etc.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:26 pm 
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My clock always seems to keep great time
Bizarrely last week before the clocks moved, I had to remove the battery as my sons car needed a jump start, as all of the other cars were not in a position to be moved to the correct spot.
The dolly battery is an easy remove since I have wing nutted the clamp.
Anyway got him jumped off and slung the battery in the garage ready for reinstatement later.
Installed it Sunday then went to take the car for a run on Tuesday this week looked at the clock and it was 5 mins slow. Go figure......... :shock:

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Trevor

75 Sprint in Magenta called GunGaDiN GGD944N
2017 Jaguar XE R-sport


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PostPosted:Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:54 pm 
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Quote:
My clock always seems to keep great time
Bizarrely last week before the clocks moved, I had to remove the battery as my sons car needed a jump start, as all of the other cars were not in a position to be moved to the correct spot.
The dolly battery is an easy remove since I have wing nutted the clamp.
Anyway got him jumped off and slung the battery in the garage ready for reinstatement later.
Installed it Sunday then went to take the car for a run on Tuesday this week looked at the clock and it was 5 mins slow. Go figure......... :shock:
I assume you set it right on Sunday and it lost 5 mins to Tuesday, not that you put the battery back n times 12 hrs + 5 mins after you took it out.

If its the intermediate type with the magnets mentioned above, the hairspring tension control is under the paper sticker on the back. Clockwize looking at the back to speed-up a slow clock. On the electrically wound clockwork ones, the hole's not covered, and its clockwise to slow a gaining clock. The quartz one I buggered didn't have an adjustment.

I'm still looking for another working quartz one.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:23 pm 
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Location:St Annes on Sea, Lancs.
I think this is the last incarnation of the modern quartz insert in a Kienzle body.
Image

Image

Image

The 12V AAA battery replacement is two diodes in series across the battery terminals with a 1k Ohm resistor up to the 12V supply. 2k Ohm is too big and 1k is so close to the limit that the clock stops when I put a multi meter across the battery input terminals.

I'm just finishing repairing a Kienzle out of a P6. The case is different in the way it mounts, but the internals are compatible - though the backlight is blue not green and the hands, while a slightly different shape, are a much better pressed metal design than the ones in the Triumph versions, even the Quartz ones. Presumably the Rover hands were tuppence a hundred more expensive.

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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PostPosted:Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:55 am 
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Informative post Graham! Cheers...

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'75 Dolomite Sprint (Mimosa Yellow) - currently restoring back to life


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PostPosted:Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:35 am 
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Quote:
Informative post Graham! Cheers...
You're welcome

Graham

_________________
The 16v Slant 4 engine is more fun than the 3.5 V8, because you mostly drive it on the upslope of the torque curve.

Factory 1977 TR7 Sprint FHC VVC 697S (Now all of, but still needs putting together)
B&Y 73 Dolomite Sprint UVB 274M (kids!)
1970 Maroon 13/60 Herald Convertable (wife's fun car).


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