The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:30 pm 
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Seems to be fairly recent 15 minute history of the Dolomite. ( not seen it before myself ). Its had a lot of views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3yvmNFcSI


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:59 pm 
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Seems to be fairly recent 15 minute history of the Dolomite. ( not seen it before myself ). Its had a lot of views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3yvmNFcSI
Thanks,not seen this one before :D

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:15 pm 
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I have now subscribed to this channel and there are loads of different, approx 15 minute videos of all sorts of cars. If you get the " Big Car " channel home screen up, press video to get the full list available.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:42 am 
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Seems to be fairly recent 15 minute history of the Dolomite. ( not seen it before myself ). Its had a lot of views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3yvmNFcSI
Surely the production figures at 14'08" are wildly incorrect? Over 200,000 Toledos and fewer than 100,000 Dolomites?!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:52 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Seems to be fairly recent 15 minute history of the Dolomite. ( not seen it before myself ). Its had a lot of views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3yvmNFcSI
Surely the production figures at 14'08" are wildly incorrect? Over 200,000 Toledos and fewer than 100,000 Dolomites?!
I don't know so much, There were only 24000 ish Sprints built over 7 years of production (73-80) leaving 75000 Dolomites (ie 1850s) The Toledo had a 6 year run from late 1970 to 1976 in both 2 and 4 door form (though the 2 door ended a year earlier in 75) But it was the "bargain basement model". It was a cheap "everymans" car. Imagine how many "cooking" 1100 and 1300 MKI Escorts were built for every 1300 Sport, Mexico and RS model that rolled off the line at Dagenham and Hailwood.

The comparison works everywhere (except price) The Sprint was built in less numbers than any other Dolomite (save possibly the 1500SE which only had little over a 1 year run) Yet its survival rate, as the range topper, is many times that of ANY other Dolomite or allied model with close to 520 survivors today when most other models can only muster 100 or so. A few are in single figures, like the 1500FWD. So it is with Fords, i'd venture to suggest there are rather MORE (alleged) Mexicos on the road than were actually built! And surely more than base spec 4 door 1100s! The cream rises to the surface, buoyed up by the corpses of lesser models.

Steve

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'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:09 pm 
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Surely the production figures at 14'08" are wildly incorrect? Over 200,000 Toledos and fewer than 100,000 Dolomites?!
I don't know so much, There were only 24000 ish Sprints built over 7 years of production (73-80) leaving 75000 Dolomites (ie 1850s) The Toledo had a 6 year run from late 1970 to 1976 in both 2 and 4 door form (though the 2 door ended a year earlier in 75)
So you reckon the chart is listing only 1850/Sprint under "Dolomite", with every 1300 variant (1300FWD, 1300TC, Dolomite 1300) under "1300" and every 1500 variant (1500FWD, 1500TC, Dolomite 1500) under "1500"?

If so, it's not only a bizarre way in which to to list production figures, it's still wildly inaccurate, especially regarding the Toledo figure.

Here's the chart:
Image
I got these figures from Wiki so they could well be bollocks, but...
All 1300 variants excluding Toledo - 180381
All 1500 variants excluding Toledo - 161923
Toledo - 119182
1850 and Sprint - 101951


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:59 pm 
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Surely the production figures at 14'08" are wildly incorrect? Over 200,000 Toledos and fewer than 100,000 Dolomites?!
I don't know so much, There were only 24000 ish Sprints built over 7 years of production (73-80) leaving 75000 Dolomites (ie 1850s) The Toledo had a 6 year run from late 1970 to 1976 in both 2 and 4 door form (though the 2 door ended a year earlier in 75)
So you reckon the chart is listing only 1850/Sprint under "Dolomite", with every 1300 variant (1300FWD, 1300TC, Dolomite 1300) under "1300" and every 1500 variant (1500FWD, 1500TC, Dolomite 1500) under "1500"?

If so, it's not only a bizarre way in which to to list production figures, it's still wildly inaccurate, especially regarding the Toledo figure.
I got these figures from Wiki so they could well be bollocks, but...
All 1300 variants excluding Toledo - 180381
All 1500 variants excluding Toledo - 161923
Toledo - 119182
1850 and Sprint - 101951
I agree the numbers don't add up if looking at TOTAL Dolomite and related car production. The chart makes more sense if you look at it as from mid 60s (when the 1300FWD was introduced) up to the range rationalisation of 1976. That would account for there being more 1300s than 1500s as the 1300fwd ran from 65-70 almost unchallenged, whereas the 1500FWD that replaced it only ran from 70-72 and the 1500TC that replaced the FWD had a similarly short career. Also NO HL models are listed. The 1500 only really took off AFTER 76 with the 1500HL being VERY popular with buyers. Also note the "Dolomite" listed as JUST that, which was only done pre 76. Later cars were badged and sold as Dolomite "somethings", 1300, 1500, 1500HL, 1850HL and Sprint respectively. This take would also explain the odd looking high number of Toledos. The Toledo was dropped in 76 so no more were built whilst the other models went on for another 4-5 years.

Another thing to consider is market placement. The 1300FWD had it's own place in the range between the Herald and the 2000 and suffered poor sales because of it. It was more expensive (if more luxurious too) than similar market competitors like the 1100/1300 ADO16s from BMC and things like the Cortina and Viva.

But when the Toledo was launched in 1970, it wasn't there to replace the 1300FWD (The 1500FWD did that and suffered a similar fate in the marketplace) but to replace the smaller, cheaper Herald (discontinued in early 71) So the Toledos marketplace was already there, with a clientele champing at the bit to own one. So, unsurprisingly, it sold very well.

It wasn't till the "Dolomite" (1850) of 1972 that the more expensive mid range car finally found a niche that suited it, as a medium sized saloon with sporting pretensions. The Sprint launched in 73 was the icing on the cake and probably lent street cred and sales to the smaller engined offerings marketed as Dolomites after 76.

As to who is correct on actual Toledo numbers (wiki or this chart) I wouldn't like to say, someone like Rob Marshall the Toledo register secretary is more up on these things than I am. But I was genuinely surprised at just how high some of the late production Toledo chassis numbers i've seen are! Some are in 6 figures!

My own Dec 73 2 door car, whilst having a relatively low number (9063) is a "facelift" car which only went into production less than a year earlier, pre and post facelift Toledos had different model codes, as did 2 and 4 door models. If you assume 10,000 per year as mine implies, double it to account for 4 door models, makes 20,000 a year, over 6 years gives you 120,000 Toledos (very roughly) But I wouldn't be surprised if more were built in the early (prefacelift) years when the model was newer and had less competition.

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:40 pm 
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I agree the numbers don't add up if looking at TOTAL Dolomite and related car production. The chart makes more sense if you look at it as from mid 60s (when the 1300FWD was introduced) up to the range rationalisation of 1976.
It might make slightly more sense, but the numbers still don't add up! And why would the dude present a comprehensive history of the Dolomite and exclude any post-1976 cars in a production summary chart?

1300 (excl. Toledo/Dolomite) - 152,026 (okay, that's pretty close to the chart).
1500 (excl. Toledo/Dolomite) - 92,902 (vs. ~120000 in the chart)

Sprint 1973-1975 (incl) - 13,267
1850 1972-1980 - 79,010
The chart shows ~95,000 for "Dolomite". So if he's excluded all post-1976 Dolomites, the chart would suggest that all 79,010 1850s were sold before 1976!
Quote:
As to who is correct on actual Toledo numbers (wiki or this chart) I wouldn't like to say, someone like Rob Marshall the Toledo register secretary is more up on these things than I am. But I was genuinely surprised at just how high some of the late production Toledo chassis numbers i've seen are! Some are in 6 figures!

My own Dec 73 2 door car, whilst having a relatively low number (9063) is a "facelift" car which only went into production less than a year earlier, pre and post facelift Toledos had different model codes, as did 2 and 4 door models. If you assume 10,000 per year as mine implies, double it to account for 4 door models, makes 20,000 a year, over 6 years gives you 120,000 Toledos (very roughly) But I wouldn't be surprised if more were built in the early (prefacelift) years when the model was newer and had less competition.
120,000 is pretty much exactly the figure given on Wiki. That still leaves a shortfall of over 80,000 Toledos as lited on the chart; I'd be mightily surprised if higher sales before the facelift could account for that sort of number.

It's a well-researched and well-produced video, but I reckon he knocked the chart up in a couple of minutes without reckoning on some geek checking his figures :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:22 pm 
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Here's the production figures from Triumph Cars - The Complete Story by Graham Robson & Richard Langworth.

1965-70 1300 113,008
1967-70 1300 TC 35,342
1970-73 1500 FWD 66,353
1970-76 Toledo 1300 113,294
1970-76 Toledo 1500 5,888
1972-80 Dolomite 1850 79,010
1973-80 Dolomite Sprint 22,941
1973-76 1500 RWD 25,549
1976-80 Dolomite 1300 32,031
1976-80 Dolomite 1500 43,235

Hopefully it should be a bit more accurate than Wikipedia.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:51 pm 
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Quote:
Here's the production figures from Triumph Cars - The Complete Story by Graham Robson & Richard Langworth.

1965-70 1300 113,008
1967-70 1300 TC 35,342
1970-73 1500 FWD 66,353
1970-76 Toledo 1300 113,294
1970-76 Toledo 1500 5,888
1972-80 Dolomite 1850 79,010
1973-80 Dolomite Sprint 22,941
1973-76 1500 RWD 25,549
1976-80 Dolomite 1300 32,031
1976-80 Dolomite 1500 43,235

Hopefully it should be a bit more accurate than Wikipedia.
That'll do me for accuracy, Mr Robson is one of the best known Triumph information compilers and authorites.

It should be noted that ALL 1500 Toledos were for export, NONE were sold in the UK, so 113294 is the real figure as far as we are concerned. That's still considerably more than any other Dolomite model and 5 times the number of Sprints (I don't count the 1300FWD as they weren't in production at the same time)

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:28 pm 
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I was very surprised how many 1500 FWDs they made in 3 years. It was obviously quite popular.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:52 am 
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Quote:
Here's the production figures from Triumph Cars - The Complete Story by Graham Robson & Richard Langworth.

1965-70 1300 113,008
1967-70 1300 TC 35,342
1970-73 1500 FWD 66,353
1970-76 Toledo 1300 113,294
1970-76 Toledo 1500 5,888
1972-80 Dolomite 1850 79,010
1973-80 Dolomite Sprint 22,941
1973-76 1500 RWD 25,549
1976-80 Dolomite 1300 32,031
1976-80 Dolomite 1500 43,235

Hopefully it should be a bit more accurate than Wikipedia.
That's the exact same figures as Wikipedia has. At least one of the pages has taken the figures from another Robson book - A-Z of Cars of the 1970s.


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