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PostPosted:Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:58 am 
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What i did many moons ago was junk the mechanical pump and all the faff of locating arms and spacers and fitted a electric one :D :D

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12v-Aeroline ... %3A2334524

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1977 Flamenco sprint (VGY NOW TAX AND MOT FREE :D )


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PostPosted:Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:26 pm 
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I have tried everything to get this pump working.My brother in law ( Ex mechanic retired ) says it's the way I'm fitting it and I have to make sure the cam is in the right place prior to fitting.I have tried turning the engine over into various positions and even put a camera into the block but it seems the cam is not central to the hole ( it seems to be over to the left of the pump ) That's what makes me think it's a later engine requiring a longer arm.
If I can't figure this out I will have to fit a electric pump but i would like to get a better quality one than what came on the car has anyone got any suggestions and experience of fitting a decent electric pump as the one I have now continually pumps and then floods the carbs.
If the car came with an electric pump which continually floods the carbs (annoying isn't it?) all you need is a pressure regulator. These aftermarket pumps can run anywhere up to around 7psi when the car only needs around 1.5psi. The higher pressure is more than enough to defeat the standard float needle valves and flood the carbs. Hence your problem!

The problem you are experiencing with the mechanical pump is precisely why so many have converted to electric. Generally speaking, once fitted and suitably controlled with a pressure reg, an electric pump is usually utterly reliable. They are also handy on cars that are infrequently used as the electric pump can be used to prime the carbs before cranking for easier starting. My only complaint on this score is that electric pumps, by and large, are infernally NOISY!

Folk often over estimate the fuel demands of SU carbs, for many years I ran a 2.5 litre 6 cylinder Ford Zodiac automatic fitted with 3 x 1.5" SU carbs supplied with fuel by a single SU electric pump nicked from a 1000 cc Morris Minor, which would have had, as OE, a single 1.125" SU. The setup never gave me a moments problem and no fuel starvation, even flat out in "kickdown" mode!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted:Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:02 pm 
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Location:Holland on sea
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I have tried everything to get this pump working.My brother in law ( Ex mechanic retired ) says it's the way I'm fitting it and I have to make sure the cam is in the right place prior to fitting.I have tried turning the engine over into various positions and even put a camera into the block but it seems the cam is not central to the hole ( it seems to be over to the left of the pump ) That's what makes me think it's a later engine requiring a longer arm.
If I can't figure this out I will have to fit a electric pump but i would like to get a better quality one than what came on the car has anyone got any suggestions and experience of fitting a decent electric pump as the one I have now continually pumps and then floods the carbs.
If the car came with an electric pump which continually floods the carbs (annoying isn't it?) all you need is a pressure regulator. These aftermarket pumps can run anywhere up to around 7psi when the car only needs around 1.5psi. The higher pressure is more than enough to defeat the standard float needle valves and flood the carbs. Hence your problem!

The problem you are experiencing with the mechanical pump is precisely why so many have converted to electric. Generally speaking, once fitted and suitably controlled with a pressure reg, an electric pump is usually utterly reliable. They are also handy on cars that are infrequently used as the electric pump can be used to prime the carbs before cranking for easier starting. My only complaint on this score is that electric pumps, by and large, are infernally NOISY!

Folk often over estimate the fuel demands of SU carbs, for many years I ran a 2.5 litre 6 cylinder Ford Zodiac automatic fitted with 3 x 1.5" SU carbs supplied with fuel by a single SU electric pump nicked from a 1000 cc Morris Minor, which would have had, as OE, a single 1.125" SU. The setup never gave me a moments problem and no fuel starvation, even flat out in "kickdown" mode!

Steve
Should of added to post i also have a filter king fitted :D

_________________
1977 Flamenco sprint (VGY NOW TAX AND MOT FREE :D )


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PostPosted:Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:27 pm 
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Hi Steve , that sounds like a plan but like you the noise drives me mad and the pump doesn't seem to stop pumping.I have heard of a pump that fits somewhere at the rear of the vehicle which might cure the noise problem.Does your pump and regulator fit in the engine bay? I don't suppose you could send me a picture of your layout?
Regards Alan


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PostPosted:Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:59 pm 
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Joined:Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:12 pm
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Location:Highley, Shropshire
Quote:
Hi Steve , that sounds like a plan but like you the noise drives me mad and the pump doesn't seem to stop pumping.I have heard of a pump that fits somewhere at the rear of the vehicle which might cure the noise problem.Does your pump and regulator fit in the engine bay? I don't suppose you could send me a picture of your layout?
Regards Alan
I'll take some pics of the install tomorrow but my pump is in the boot and the reg is under the bonnet where I can reach it easily to adjust it. TBH they both came with the car so I have no idea of make. The pump, though rubber mounted on 2 "cotton reel" mounts, is still really loud in operation and, unlike the better SU pump, runs almost continually as yours does.

This may be due to the install, as electric pumps come in 2 "shades" a) short suck, long blow, designed for mounting, near the tank and b) long suck, short blow, designed for mounting near the engine. I postulate the possibility of an equal suck/blow pump for mounting centrally under the floor but i've not seen one. But if you mount the wrong pump in the right place (or vice versa) it will overwork itself and wear out quickly. Since I don't know which sort I have (and the previous owner was an incompetent bodger) I may have the pump in the wrong location!

I'm actually half inclined to splash some cash and buy a "proper" SU type pump which are only really noisy when priming the carb(s), once running they subside to a gentle occasional tick, rather than the constant thunderous drum of the one i've currently got! Maybe one designed for an MGB would do the job to an acceptable standard and noise level!

Steve

EDIT, a quick scan of ebay has produced prices of £100+ for genuine or good quality lookalke SU pumps, I may have to think again!

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted:Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:24 am 
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Yes I've looked at Burlin and they want £140 for the SU electric version without points but you know what they say " you get what you pay for" and your right about the noise. I had a Daimler with twin SU pumps because it had two tanks. When you turned the ignition you could hear it tick and when it stopped ticking you could start the car and you couldn't hear it again.So I don't understand why the "Chinese" can't copy that system. My pump of unknown make is fitted in the engine compartment and is really noisy.I have looked at the regulator you mentioned and they are around £60 and yet a cheap one can be had for £18.After the problems i have had with the mechanical pump not fitting I am not confident of fitting a cheap anything.
I think I will speak to Burlin and get recommendations and save up!
Alan


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PostPosted:Fri Mar 12, 2021 5:29 am 
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Steve have a look at Huco pumps. I know a few Triumphists who have been very pleased, and these are people who are regulars on the RBRR etc etc so they have been properly tested.
The other advantage is that the Hucos come as either pull (engine bay) or push (boot mounted) and there are 2 pressure options. the low pressure works with SU's without the need for an extra regulator. Cost about £50.
The slightly cheaper option, not tried myself, is the Facet Posiflow.
Quote:
Quote:
Hi Steve , that sounds like a plan but like you the noise drives me mad and the pump doesn't seem to stop pumping.I have heard of a pump that fits somewhere at the rear of the vehicle which might cure the noise problem.Does your pump and regulator fit in the engine bay? I don't suppose you could send me a picture of your layout?
Regards Alan


I'll take some pics of the install tomorrow but my pump is in the boot and the reg is under the bonnet where I can reach it easily to adjust it. TBH they both came with the car so I have no idea of make. The pump, though rubber mounted on 2 "cotton reel" mounts, is still really loud in operation and, unlike the better SU pump, runs almost continually as yours does.

This may be due to the install, as electric pumps come in 2 "shades" a) short suck, long blow, designed for mounting, near the tank and b) long suck, short blow, designed for mounting near the engine. I postulate the possibility of an equal suck/blow pump for mounting centrally under the floor but i've not seen one. But if you mount the wrong pump in the right place (or vice versa) it will overwork itself and wear out quickly. Since I don't know which sort I have (and the previous owner was an incompetent bodger) I may have the pump in the wrong location!

I'm actually half inclined to splash some cash and buy a "proper" SU type pump which are only really noisy when priming the carb(s), once running they subside to a gentle occasional tick, rather than the constant thunderous drum of the one i've currently got! Maybe one designed for an MGB would do the job to an acceptable standard and noise level!

Steve

EDIT, a quick scan of ebay has produced prices of £100+ for genuine or good quality lookalke SU pumps, I may have to think again!

_________________
Clive Senior
Brighton
Driving Toledo fitted with slant 4, sprint OD box and axle. Needs fettling!


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PostPosted:Fri Mar 12, 2021 7:50 pm 
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Joined:Wed May 27, 2020 7:07 pm
Posts:53
Quote:
Steve have a look at Huco pumps. I know a few Triumphists who have been very pleased, and these are people who are regulars on the RBRR etc etc so they have been properly tested.
The other advantage is that the Hucos come as either pull (engine bay) or push (boot mounted) and there are 2 pressure options. the low pressure works with SU's without the need for an extra regulator. Cost about £50.
The slightly cheaper option, not tried myself, is the Facet Posiflow.
Quote:
Quote:
Hi Steve , that sounds like a plan but like you the noise drives me mad and the pump doesn't seem to stop pumping.I have heard of a pump that fits somewhere at the rear of the vehicle which might cure the noise problem.Does your pump and regulator fit in the engine bay? I don't suppose you could send me a picture of your layout?
Regards Alan


I'll take some pics of the install tomorrow but my pump is in the boot and the reg is under the bonnet where I can reach it easily to adjust it. TBH they both came with the car so I have no idea of make. The pump, though rubber mounted on 2 "cotton reel" mounts, is still really loud in operation and, unlike the better SU pump, runs almost continually as yours does.

This may be due to the install, as electric pumps come in 2 "shades" a) short suck, long blow, designed for mounting, near the tank and b) long suck, short blow, designed for mounting near the engine. I postulate the possibility of an equal suck/blow pump for mounting centrally under the floor but i've not seen one. But if you mount the wrong pump in the right place (or vice versa) it will overwork itself and wear out quickly. Since I don't know which sort I have (and the previous owner was an incompetent bodger) I may have the pump in the wrong location!

I'm actually half inclined to splash some cash and buy a "proper" SU type pump which are only really noisy when priming the carb(s), once running they subside to a gentle occasional tick, rather than the constant thunderous drum of the one i've currently got! Maybe one designed for an MGB would do the job to an acceptable standard and noise level!

Steve

EDIT, a quick scan of ebay has produced prices of £100+ for genuine or good quality lookalke SU pumps, I may have to think again!
Hi, Clifthanger, I have looked at the Huco pumps and they look good but my carbs are Stromberg's do you think the low pressure one will be ok?


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PostPosted:Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:07 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Steve have a look at Huco pumps. I know a few Triumphists who have been very pleased, and these are people who are regulars on the RBRR etc etc so they have been properly tested.
The other advantage is that the Hucos come as either pull (engine bay) or push (boot mounted) and there are 2 pressure options. the low pressure works with SU's without the need for an extra regulator. Cost about £50.
The slightly cheaper option, not tried myself, is the Facet Posiflow.
Quote:




I'll take some pics of the install tomorrow but my pump is in the boot and the reg is under the bonnet where I can reach it easily to adjust it. TBH they both came with the car so I have no idea of make. The pump, though rubber mounted on 2 "cotton reel" mounts, is still really loud in operation and, unlike the better SU pump, runs almost continually as yours does.

This may be due to the install, as electric pumps come in 2 "shades" a) short suck, long blow, designed for mounting, near the tank and b) long suck, short blow, designed for mounting near the engine. I postulate the possibility of an equal suck/blow pump for mounting centrally under the floor but i've not seen one. But if you mount the wrong pump in the right place (or vice versa) it will overwork itself and wear out quickly. Since I don't know which sort I have (and the previous owner was an incompetent bodger) I may have the pump in the wrong location!

I'm actually half inclined to splash some cash and buy a "proper" SU type pump which are only really noisy when priming the carb(s), once running they subside to a gentle occasional tick, rather than the constant thunderous drum of the one i've currently got! Maybe one designed for an MGB would do the job to an acceptable standard and noise level!

Steve

EDIT, a quick scan of ebay has produced prices of £100+ for genuine or good quality lookalke SU pumps, I may have to think again!
Hi, Clifthanger, I have looked at the Huco pumps and they look good but my carbs are Stromberg's do you think the low pressure one will be ok?
I am trying to remember if any of the cars I know using the Huco are on strombergs. I am unsure. But deffo OK with SU's. So do strombergs use lower pressure needle valves??

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Clive Senior
Brighton
Driving Toledo fitted with slant 4, sprint OD box and axle. Needs fettling!


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PostPosted:Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:02 pm 
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Location:Harrow Middlesex
LD parts sell electric fuel pump for the stag about £70 should fit

Dave


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PostPosted:Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:35 pm 
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Here are some pics of the pump and regulator, I know the Filter King reg has a big glass filter built in and is rather expensive (also, by virtue of size, a PITA to fit in a crowded Sprint engine bay) This one is nowhere near as big and seems competent.


Image


Image

That trawl around ebay produced one guy selling refurbished SU pumps for £50 apiece, (Start price, no bids so far) if they are exchange, I could find no mention of it. He seems to have a few in stock from the picture. Item number 284214884134.

Worth the £50 for SU reliability and silent running I think, there are folk selling untested used ones for £30+!

Steve

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted:Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:43 am 
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I used this setup for over a decade in my race car. Pump was less than the equivalent of 10 quid (on TradeMe - Ebay equivalent here) and was still going fine when I retired from racing. Setup in the boot was simple as it interrupted and then reconnected with the existing pipework. Getting power to the pump was the biggest issue, as for safety I wanted it controlled by a switch from the drivers seat. Admittedly car was running Dellortos not SUs but I also thought they are sensitive to high pressures. I recently fell into the trap of the arm of the mechanical pump I had to rebuild for a road car slipping off the cam on the jackshaft so was contemplating using one of these cheap electric pumps as a substitute. Geoff


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PostPosted:Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:27 pm 
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Quote:
I used this setup for over a decade in my race car. Pump was less than the equivalent of 10 quid (on TradeMe - Ebay equivalent here) and was still going fine when I retired from racing. Setup in the boot was simple as it interrupted and then reconnected with the existing pipework. Getting power to the pump was the biggest issue, as for safety I wanted it controlled by a switch from the drivers seat. Admittedly car was running Dellortos not SUs but I also thought they are sensitive to high pressures. I recently fell into the trap of the arm of the mechanical pump I had to rebuild for a road car slipping off the cam on the jackshaft so was contemplating using one of these cheap electric pumps as a substitute. Geoff
Thanks Geoff, That set up looks great, but can you elaborate on what I am seeing in place. First what is the white plastic part? then I presume a filter and then the pump.The other question is how loud is the pump ? and does it stop ticking when the carbs are full? I would like this set up but I think a better quality pump i.e a Huco and possibly a pressure regulator if needed. Kind regards Alan


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PostPosted:Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:56 pm 
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Just a quick reply to a question posed earlier, there is no difference between SUs and Stroms in terms of pressure limits. Both need around 1.5psi for optimum effectiveness but will cope with up to around 3 psi before becoming erratic. A pair of Webers/Dellortos will like slightly more (around 4 psi)

There has been much made elsewhere on here of modern copies of MECHANICAL pumps making up to 6 or more psi and causing the same flooding problems!

The original design SU electric fuel pump (or Burlen and other modern "pointsless" copies) designed for MGB, Stag, Riley 1.5 and some Jags, should be absolutely fine for a Dolomite of any capacity with twin SU/Stromberg carbs without need for a regulator.

Steve

PS, i've blown up the pic of the fuel pressure reg on my car and it's a Sytec Pro-Flo, a well respected make. I was unable to find one in a quick ebay search, except included in a Lotus elan used pump ad for £32 all in, which seems like a bargain! Item number 203300615032.

_________________
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey

Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.


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PostPosted:Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:36 pm 
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So I have given up trying to fit the mechanical pump. I have bit the bullet and bought a Huco pump, it's low pressure so doesn't by all accounts require a pressure regulator, but on receiving the pump today it says it is recommended that a emergency cut off switch be incorporated in the electric system. For people that don't know it's a switch that in case of a accident the fuel is cut off automatically.
Sounds like a reason to fit one so ordered one from Ebay but it takes three weeks to arrive.
I don't plan on having a accident imminently.
The only other thing I think I need is a filter but does it go on before the pump?
Alan


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